KIA6213S or LM386 Amp?

[Scruffie]

I'm about to build a small practice amp and have 2 chips available to me a KIA2613S (which wont get used for anything other than a small amp where the 386 might) or the LM386 Chip and just wondered what, if anything, one has over the other, they both seem to have about a 1/2W output but the KIA datasheet seems a bit lacking and doesn't mention what each pin is so it might be a bit hit and miss with designing other than the sample circuit given.

I know the Small Marshall & Fender practice amps use the KIA Chips but does anyone know how these amps compare to something like the Noisey Cricket? They're alot more complex so i'd probably try and design something simpler around the chip.

Is one a better chip, simmilar or a cheap piece o' i'm not too sure what I should be looking for when choosing a small amp chip  

[davidallancole]

Do you have a datasheet for the KIA chip?  I can't find anything on it.

[Scruffie]

Do you have a datasheet for the KIA chip?  I can't find anything on it.

That would be because it doesn't exist... I meant the KIA6213, now where's that facepalm emoticon...

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/69377/KEC/KIA6213S.html

[petemoore]

  I can't see much but did catch "22watts".
  The LM386 is much less than that.
  LM386 amps are a fairly simple and inexpensive matter, especially if you have a little speaker, I love my little battery powered amps for testing and toting.
  22watts of course will require a more substantial power supply and probably heat sink, until data sheet and schematic plan are available there are other amp-chips such as the LM3886.

[Scruffie]

22watts? It came out of a small 9V Battery practice amp circuit to begin with from a few years back and is the same chip in those little Marshall MS-2 amps, I think it's still only half a watt but I could be wrong.

But it's true the 386 are inexpensive and simple, It's just I had the other chip already spare not doing anything, but I also have 386s and yes this was just going to be for a little amp for testing pedals so i'l probably stick with something based off that although I thought I read the small 386 amps weren't much use for testing distortions though is my only concern as i'd quite like to be able to, although I assume the other chip probably wouldn't have been that much better.

[petemoore]

  The 386 is cool, easy to hook one up.
  IIRC the LIttle Gem II uses 2 chips and dissipates more power.
  Anything much more than that starts being more demanding of power supply voltage, current, heat sink, and of course the speaker too.

[davidallancole]

There doesn't seem to be much difference in what the chips can do.  You could easily build up both of them and give them a listen to see if you like on over the other.  I play my Metal Zone 2 through an LM386 so there is no problem playing distortion circuits through these amps.  You just can't play very loudly.  So I say, go for it!

[Scruffie]

There doesn't seem to be much difference in what the chips can do.  You could easily build up both of them and give them a listen to see if you like on over the other.  I play my Metal Zone 2 through an LM386 so there is no problem playing distortion circuits through these amps.  You just can't play very loudly.  So I say, go for it!

No I didn't think there was from the datasheet but I thought someone else might be more knowledgeable as it was mostly a bunch of gibberish to me.

Looks like it'll be a 386 amp seeing as I atleast know what the pins do and could perhaps design something myself or use one of the much more available layouts than exist for the KIA, i'l keep that in stock for if I ever get a broken Marshall MS-2

Loud isn't an issue, it was just if the distortion would just turn to mud but if you can play a Metal Zone into it, that's fine by me!

[oldrocker]

Don't bother with a KIA6213.  I tried it and they sound crummy.  If you're going to use an sip ic try a AN7112 if you can find one.  They're cleaner than a KIA6213.  Another option would be an lm386 N3 ic.  These seem to have more headroom than a regular 386 N1 and maybe a higher watt chip though I'm not sure. 

[petemoore]

http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM386.html#Overview
Features 
• Battery operation: Amazing how convienient this is, building an amp.
• Minimum external parts: 
• Wide supply voltage range: 4V-12V or 5V-18V: probably gets about all that can be got from <18v supply • Low quiescent current drain: 4mA: Use a power supply 
• Voltage gains from 20 to 200: 'nice', as long as it comes to <18v
• Ground referenced input: Handy, simple
• Self-centering output quiescent voltage: Also has multiple uses, convenient.  • Low distortion: 0.2% (AV = 20, VS = 6V, RL = 8Ohm, PO = 125mW, f = 1kHz): Easy to make it distort.
• Available in 8 pin MSOP package: Solder/heat the socket, not the chip pins. Description

The LM386 is a power amplifier designed for use in low voltage consumer applications. The gain is internally set to 20 to keep external part count low, but the addition of an external resistor and capacitor between pins 1 and 8 will increase the gain to any value from 20 to 200.

The inputs are ground referenced while the output automatically biases to one-half the supply voltage. The quiescent power drain is only 24 milliwatts when operating from a 6 volt supply, making the LM386 ideal for battery operation.


http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM386.html#Overview
Applications
• AM-FM radio amplifiers
• Portable tape player amplifiers
• Intercoms
• TV sound systems
• Line drivers
• Ultrasonic drivers
• Small servo drivers
• Power converters
*  A general purpose amplifier capable of driving a speaker even when starting from a weak source signal.

[davidallancole]

These are the pin functions for your KIA chip:

KIA6213

1 Miller Compensation
2 + Input
3 - Input (for feedback)
4 Miller Compensation
5 Gnd
6 Output
7 + Supply
8 Don't know what this would be called
9 Bypass

If you were to build something with this, just use the standard application from the datasheet.  The only thing to really fool around with is the value of Rf and C3 to tailor the gain and low end roll off of the amp (though the values of C6 also effects the low end roll off).

[Scruffie]

Ahh Okay, many thanks, looks like i'm just gunna hang on to it for a broken MS-2 like I said, especially after this,

Don't bother with a KIA6213.  I tried it and they sound crummy.

Thanks for your responses everyone!