Coolaudio BBDs/analog delay

mrscientificterms · December 09, 2009, 04:56:38 PM

Hello, I am new to the forum. I joined as I am currently researching analog delay. I have been studying both vintage and modern circuits. Obsolete chip sets/modern bbd chips, etc . . . I have been aware of the Shanghai Belling BBD chips, but the Coolaudio chips are new to me. Does anybody have any experience with these? Seem they are used in some Behringer and BBE stomp boxes. There is not much info on these chips/company and any and all info would be appreciated. Here is my experience--

I had a dead Boss DM-3. One side of the compander had failed (upc1571). I swapped it for a Coolaudio v571d compander and it is working like a charm. Full functionality and classic, great tone. Perfect pin matches, that easy.

I am thinking about building some different delays/effects and using these chips. They are very affordable, which, I guess for some reason, makes them suspect. Any thoughts?

Also, I do not own an MXR Carbon Copy to check one out, although I will buy one probably after the holidays. I'm curious as to how MXR gets 600 ms out of these. Does anybody have a clean gut shot, or maybe could list the chips in this? Thanks and happy holidays!

jacobyjd · December 09, 2009, 04:57:17 PM

They sound nice to me

aziltz · December 09, 2009, 06:00:59 PM

I wonder if coolaudio is owned by apple. The websites have a similar format.

octfrank · December 09, 2009, 06:20:13 PM

Quote from: aziltz on December 09, 2009, 06:00:59 PM
I wonder if coolaudio is owned by apple. The websites have a similar format.

Nope, Coolaudio = Behringer

Mark Hammer · December 09, 2009, 08:23:01 PM

In one sense, BBDs are analog chips, but in another sense they are a sort of logic chip and are really just a series of JFET switches. As such, the design is the design, and there is really not much difference between one make (e.g., Matsush*ta) and another (Beiling, Coolaudio). It's not like they have invented another approach to the same general task the way that different companies have different internal architectures for op-amps or power-amp chips. Since Panasonic did not want to support it anymore, I gather those other companies just leased or bought the die from Panasonic/Matsush*ta and started cranking them out. Either the chip works or it doesn't. If there are any audible differences between makes, those differences pale in comparison to simply running the same chip at a different clock rate, or small (mis)adjustments of bias voltage.

Bottom line: use them with confidence.

Lurco · December 10, 2009, 02:38:18 AM

are coolaudios noisy?

StephenGiles · December 10, 2009, 05:01:32 AM

Quote from: Lurco on December 10, 2009, 02:38:18 AM
are coolaudios noisy?

They are all noisy!

RonaldB · December 10, 2009, 07:33:00 AM

I treid them in a AD3208 (GGG) circuit and they worked fine. Now noise add all.

cpm · December 10, 2009, 09:06:13 AM

Quote from: Mark Hammer on December 09, 2009, 08:23:01 PM
Bottom line: use them with confidence.

i agree

Mark Hammer · December 10, 2009, 09:34:02 AM

Wait a sec. When I wrote "Panasonic/Matsushita", did the software insert an asterisk on my behalf to "clean up" my post?

Mark Hammer · December 10, 2009, 09:38:48 AM

Well I'll be, it DID!

When I was in grade 8, my buddies and I were into building model airplanes, and WWI/II planes were the ones we liked. One afternoon, we were gathered at a mutual friend's house, chatting about our respective builds. One of the guys had built a Fokker bi-plane, and was going on and on about Fokker this and Fokker that. After he left, the host's mother came over to him and softly said, "Andy, I don't want you to play with Peter any more. I don't think he's a very nice boy."

Sorry for swearing, folks. I promise I won't do it again. You'll excuse me while I go prepare supper. We're having chicken with shitake mushrooms.

jrod · December 10, 2009, 10:52:39 AM

Does anybody have a clean gut shot, or maybe could list the chips in this?

http://freestompboxes.org/download/file.php?id=4846&mode=view

mac · December 10, 2009, 10:59:22 AM

Quote from: Mark Hammer on December 10, 2009, 09:34:02 AM
Wait a sec. When I wrote "Panasonic/Matsush*ta", did the software insert an asterisk on my behalf to "clean up" my post?

whenever i mention my matsushita germaniums the soft inserts the *
try matsumerd

mac

Mark Hammer · December 10, 2009, 11:14:00 AM

Quote from: mrscientificterms on December 09, 2009, 04:56:38 PM
Also, I do not own an MXR Carbon Copy to check one out, although I will buy one probably after the holidays. I'm curious as to how MXR gets 600 ms out of these. Does anybody have a clean gut shot, or maybe could list the chips in this? Thanks and happy holidays!

My guess is that they get 600ms the same way that Retro-Sonic does: use a pair of 4096-stage BBDs. Many of us are accustomed to the "classic" analog delay (like a DM-2) that would use one MN3005 or MN3205 and run out of delay time beyond about 350ms. Happily, many of the chips so central to making analog delays are now available in surface-mount form at low cost, making it easy and cheap and physically possible to stuff a pair of 4096-stage BBDs inside a 1590B chassis.

mrscientificterms · December 10, 2009, 11:38:23 AM

Exactly, I'm looking to build a 600ms DM-3, a fav of mine for 20 years. Was figuring I would use tow buckets, does that mean two clock chips, too?

Jrod, I couldn't make sense of your link that you posted, can you repost, and thanks a bunch!

Does anybody know what chips Analogman is using in the AR20DL.

Thanks again for all of the help, folks. Some very informative (and quite amusing!) posts. I really appreciate it.

cpm · December 10, 2009, 12:00:35 PM

Quote from: mrscientificterms on December 10, 2009, 11:38:23 AM
Exactly, I'm looking to build a 600ms DM-3, a fav of mine for 20 years. Was figuring I would use tow buckets, does that mean two clock chips, too?

search for post by Mark about BBDs, that and many other questions are well discussed. And its a nice exercise on learning the bits and tricks.

memory man uses one cmos 4047 to clock 8000 stages
i've used one 4047 buffered with a 4049 to clock 3 or 4 3205's

Mark Hammer · December 10, 2009, 12:07:31 PM

Normally, you would have to use a single clock generator chip like an MN3101 or 3102 (depending on which generation of BBD is used). However, in unbuffered form, the MN3101/3102 has difficulty driving more than 8192 stages (two MN3005s, 4 MN3208s, etc). UNits employing a CMOS buffer or even a CMOS clock generator like the CD4047 have more luck. The Maxon AD999 uses multiple clock generators, but they are all ganged to a single "master" clock generator (here is a gutshot: http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7852/dsc04743z.jpg ). This is not advised. Maxon used it because they started producing the AD999 at a time prior to when Coolaudio resurrected the 40096-stage chip. and pretty much all they had available were 1024-stage chips. So, they used 8 of them in series to accomplish the work of two MN3205s, complete with individual clock generators and trimpots.

Dan N · December 10, 2009, 07:33:15 PM

Looks like the CC uses a pair of BL3208A's.

About the Coolaudio chips, I remember switching an MN3205 with a V3205 and there was quite a difference in output. The Coolaudio was louder. I don't know if this would cause a problem with dropping one in a DM-3 circuit or not.

mrscientificterms · December 11, 2009, 12:59:05 AM

I'm going to chime in here for a moment and say thanks to all of you for your time and information. Your generosity is much appreciated.

I am getting ready to breadboard a DM-3 with sockets. I am going to mess around with some of these different chips. I'll let you know if the Coolaudios are hot. It's my winter woodshed thing to do, that and take a stab at jazz fiddle.

And try not to nip too much nog. AS if I haven't asked enough questions, I'm curious what your fav vintage and modern analog delays are. Obviously I am a fan of the old DM-3. The modern ones that strike me the most are actually kinda the bang for the buckers. The EH Memory Boy for the money, although it is mostly SMD, is kinda fun, for example. And is easy on the real estate, too. Cheers and thanks again.

oldschoolanalog · December 11, 2009, 12:49:17 PM

Quote from: Dan N on December 10, 2009, 07:33:15 PMAbout the Coolaudio chips, I remember switching an MN3205 with a V3205 and there was quite a difference in output. The Coolaudio was louder.

The V3205's are louder. I tested mine in a vintage AD9 & DM2 with the same results (increased delay volume).
Favorite vintage analog delay? I can only comment on what I own. That being said: Ibanez AD80 & EH DMM.
New? A GGG AD3208 I modded to use 2 pcs MN3005 (Runs on 12V). Sweet.

All the Best!
Dave

News:

Coolaudio BBDs/analog delay