Is this a good oscilloscope? Also, suggested multimeter?

[devi ever]

I'm finally buying my first... getting serious about circuit design.

Found this : http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/TENMA-72-6805-/72-6805

Also, anyone recommend a good, inexpensive multimeter?

Thanks in advance and I look forward to posting more here as I go about designing my first phaser!  

[cathexis]

I used to have one just like that, borrowed it from a friend and could keep it for several years. I gave it back after finding a very similar model used. I liked having the built-in function generator always at hand. Good stable scope for the price, did everything I ever needed for pedal building. When you go shopping for a multimeter, look for one with a frequency counter function - I've seen several fairly cheap models that have that. Comes in handy when you build a flanger, for example. Also, even more important, a function for measuring capacitance, of course. Good luck!
LARS

[PRR]

Any 'scope since the late 1970s is more than good enough for musical audio.

Over-fancy is NOT better. The bleeding-edge gigahertz developers need features which make no sense in audio, and just get in the way.

I've used about six or seven different 'scopes in my day. I did a LOT with a crappy EICO 427, gas-sweep, "450KHz" but pretty useless past 100KHz. You just can't buy a 'scope that bad today.

If you can afford it, get New With Warranty. Yes, I got most of my 'scopes used As-Is. One was literally a basket-case. I dig that, to a point. But for getting work done, a known-good returnable 'scope is a better buy.

BTW, when I moved house, all I brought was my Velleman hand-held LCD 'scope. Guitar amps and basic "is there a signal?" tracing, it does OK, and a LOT less space on truck or in my smaller new house.

> built-in function generator

I've had heaps of oscillators, but yes I do think an inboard source would be a useful frill.

As for DMMs.... the $3.99 ones are IMHO very good until they break. My two main DMMs are 20+ years old, were $60+ when new, and almost as good as a new $20 DMM. I recently got an older FLUKE, and love it, but it's like owning a Deere 950 small farm tractor to mow a small lawn. It's a lot of overkill for most audio.

[Scruffie]

Yeah I had a simmilar one too at my old college, pretty sturdy bits of gear but as Cathexis says, no reason to go new, they'll last a life time usually but that sort of model does have most things you're going to want for stompbox building.

As for multimeters, there's some pretty good inexpensive ones on Futurlec http://www.futurlec.com/Multimeters.shtml

[Skruffyhound]

Looks fine to me, but I'm still a newb with scopes, so I'll just bump your thread  

My DMM is this http://www.e-sun.cn/EN/d.aspx?pht=837 I think it cost 2 bucks from a supermarket, a friend gave it to me, but it turns out to be great, and I have several other colleagues that use it and like it. I'm suspicious of it's hFE measurement, but otherwise it's very comfortable to use and accurate.

My other DMM is this http://www.amazon.com/Mastech-MS8222G-31-Range-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B002V0UBXI considerably more expensive but adds a few things (and loses 1); capacitance (basically why I bought it), higher resistance up to 20M(I use this), temperature,frequency (haven't used this, but potentially very useful),higher power ratings, but has no hFE.

I also built a capacitance tester (and bought scope) from here http://www.jyetech.com/en/default.html no complaints.

Basically there are a lot of cheap DMM's out there, and I believe most are good, technology being what it is today.
I think if you are going for a scope you might find the requirements you have for a DMM could shift somewhat.
Some information for you and a bump at least. Good Luck

Edit : three replies while I was posting, wow, hot topic 

[Brymus]

A few questions > I think PRR can provide some good answers >  but anyone else feel free to respond here
1) E-bay has lots of scopes for around 200$ that would appear to be in the 600$ range new is this a good route ? > buying one on the bay.
   most don't have leads or manuals...

2) For building pedals I am guessing the 60$ kit one that Scruffy linked to would be fine ,even though its one channel,would this work for all pedals >flangers ,envelope filters ect... ? (IDK nada about using a scope but plan to learn this year)

3) The one Scruffy linked to only works up to 50V p-p so tube amp work is out > correct ?

4) As I can already say I am quite serious about learning the methods for repairing and designing Amps,and other electronics,I would like
  to eventually work in a related field.
What are the features >requirements I should be looking for in buying a scope that will work as I evolve and learn more ?

5) Could someone break it down like this with the features to look for/that are neccesary ?
                                                           > USB PC scopes in the 100- 200$ range (how useful are these?)
                                                           >scope for pedals only (the 60$ kit ?)
                                                           >scope for the majority of audio/hobby related work,amps,pedals,ect
                                                           >scope one would need when applying for a general electronics service/tech job

I think the answers to these questions will be quite helpful to anyone interested in buying an o-scope.
So thank you in advance for your help/replies -Bryan

[devi ever]

Does this look like a good DMM?

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/TENMA-72-8150-/72-8150

[JKowalski]

Does this look like a good DMM?

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/TENMA-72-8150-/72-8150

Doesn't have voltage measuring capability.

What I think a good DMM should have is:

Voltmeter (DC)
Voltmeter (AC)
Resistance
Capacitance
Continuity beeper (beeps when measuring low ohms/a connection between two points)
Diode checker
Ammeter

Those are the most useful standard ones.

Other features which get less use are inductance meters, hfe checkers, and frequency counters.

[devi ever]

Cool.  Thanks for that. 

[frank_p]

This was a very ok answer answerd by J.K..


 

[Michael Allen]

I just bought a Leader dual trace scope on craigslist for $50. Real good condition from labs at MIT. Grabbed some 10X probes on ebay for $15 and I'm at $65 for a totally useable scope for anything audio related. If you were an EE and needed serious technology then sure buy a new one with all the knobs. But in building pedals for 10 years I never used one, and have just now bought one to look at tube amps since i'm building more and more these days.

For a multimeter, man any cheap one will do. Fluke is way overkill for pedals. I used a Radio Shack cheap DMM until I blew it's internal fuse on a tube amp. Bought another cheapo on ebay for $15 and its all I need. AC/DC measurement to at least 600V, continuity beeper, Resistance. hFE testing, capacitance, and frequency are useful too. Especially if you do work with clocks or BBDs and such, frequency is very helpful.

If it has the basics and it's cheap, go for it. You're not going into electronic design firm tomorrow so no need to break the bank right?

[Dan N]

I have one (DMM) like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190368210332

Auto-ranging is lovely.

[aron]

Yes, I like auto ranging for sure. I still use my big Radio Shack meter after all these years. Still works great!!

[devi ever]

I have one (DMM) like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190368210332

Auto-ranging is lovely.

So this seems like a good unit, no?

I'm ready to go ahead and pull the trigger... just want to make sure it's not missing anything.

I'm such a noob, I know! 

[aron]

It looks pretty good to me. The only thing that caught my eye was that it doesn't seem to have auto transistor pinout detection. Other than that, it looks very serviceable. Hey, I had a question, do you mean that you built all of those pedals without a meter all these years? If so, very interesting.

[devi ever]

It looks pretty good to me. The only thing that caught my eye was that it doesn't seem to have auto transistor pinout detection. Other than that, it looks very serviceable. Hey, I had a question, do you mean that you built all of those pedals without a meter all these years? If so, very interesting.

I had one WAY back in the day when I first started designing my fuzzes, but even then I was doing it via a lot of guirella design warfare (trial and error in the most excruciating of ways).  Mind you, it's been years since I actually designed a completely new circuit from the ground up.

... but wait, did you mean the building process?  In regards to manufacturing I've never had a build that was faulty that I couldn't suss out the problem in under five minutes just from tell-tale clues in regards to what wasn't acting or sounding right.

My first contractor would always have to break out her multimeter to figure out where she went wrong, and sometimes she'd get so frustrated after spending an hour trying to figure out what connection was loose or what went wrong, and she toss the pedal my way.

I'd always figure it out real quick and she'd grab the pedal and storm out to fix the lil' bastard.

... but yeah, that's with _very_ simple fuzz circuits.

That's why I'm looking into finally getting a DMM and Osc in the shop.  It's one thing when a circuit has a hand full of transistors... it's going to be something quite different dealing with a modulation pedal full of components!

Anyhow.  Thanks for the help!

... and any chance you can change the thread title so oscilloscope is spelled right? 

[aron]

I would be interested in hearing how you quickly debugged a circuit that the contractor might have assembled. I am always happy to hear about quick ways of debugging. 

You might turn into a mad scientist once you get the DMM and scope in the room!

[devi ever]

I would be interested in hearing how you quickly debugged a circuit that the contractor might have assembled. I am always happy to hear about quick ways of debugging.  

You might turn into a mad scientist once you get the DMM and scope in the room!

I hope to out mad-scientist a lot of people in the coming years!  

... and as far as debugging ... um.  It really depends!  I mean... I know my pedals like the back of my hand... and um... I just know!  Ha ha.  It's weird actually.  I mean, kinda like an old gearhead can hear the way an engine is running wrong and doesn't have to take apart the entire thing to know what needs to be fixed.

Also since the circuits are so simple, most of the problems come down to either a loose connection, a cross connection, or a faulty part.... all things which are just a matter of common sense sussing out.  Bad switches are easy... engange / disengage and if it's inconsistent, well there you go.

LED not coming on, check to make sure it's leads are the right way.

Absolutely NO sound when engaged.  Most likely a ground that shouldn't be grounded, so check those specific connections first.

Weird oscillation that shouldn't be there?  Usually a cross connection somewhere on the board (we still use hand etched pcb's for some of the circuits [not for long though!], so sometimes there are bridges or gaps).

Fuzz is good and powerful but tone or texture isn't quite right... most likely a wrong value'd component somewhere along the way.

Yeah... I guess that's really about it.

Like I said... real basic stuff.  Not much can go wrong, and when it does, it's usually pretty obvious.