Faye Zher - the defx phaser project

[devi ever]

So, I'm designing a phaser from the ground up and figured I'd share the experience here + I'll probably have lots of questions along the way.

Figure I'd start a thread dedicated to the progress... kinda like a little mini blog here at DIY.

Any chance we can get a YOUTUBE embed feature as I'm sure I'll be posting a lot of video as well.

Glad to have this place as a resource, and I'll definitely be posting the final schematic once it's done.

[R.G.]

? ? ?

[devi ever]

? ? ?

Sorry.... should I have posted this somewhere else. 

[Processaurus]

I'd hazard a guess ? ? ? means there's confusion over the goal here, as there's been some contention on this forum being used in commercial ventures and taking on a commercial flavor, like consulting or press releases for new products, as it takes focus away from solely helping people making their own pedals.  But I think it would be interesting and a refreshing twist for a company to document a design's progress and share the details of construction, if that's the idea here.  If it was the type of thing that was like "if you can solder, don't buy it, this is how you'd make it".  But if like most commercial products it is an undisclosed design, it isn't really appropriate to ask a community to work on it, though some progress pictures and notes would definitely still be interesting (like getting to go to a pedal company for a tour) in this sites lounge (OT area).

So here's some free consulting to start off with,  :

If you haven't already decided on a variable resistance element, I'd be interested to see a commercial pulse width modulation/analog switch based phaser, you could make a lot of phases with few parts, and all without FET matching or LDR's or archaic OTA nonsense.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=77045.0

I've also seen a circuit to make voltage>PWM in app notes for the 555 timer .

[Nitefly182]

I think she's just designing one and she wants to document the process here. She's not asking this forum to design the pedal for her.

[Brymus]

Yeah ,if its for a commercial venture don't use these forums for free press > free design help.
If its for your own use,something you will have open for anyone to copy and build themselves.
By all means continue,you have peaked my interest,I love phasers and there are some nice designs floating around these forums.
That doesnt mean we cant use more  

I think links to vids are better than embedding them in the forum it makes it easier to load and view the threads that way.

[JKowalski]

I don't see anything wrong about the thread, she is giving to the forum (documentation, final schematic) as well as taking (advice, help) and that balances out in my eyes.



I think you will find yourself not sticking to the "from the ground up" idea for very long. Electronics is a field where mostly everything gets designed by looking at what other people have done previously. There aren't too many methods of designing a phaser, it's pretty much guaranteed to a) have been done before or b) not work well/at all.

Have you decided what method you are going to use for time delay? OTAs, FETs, Vactrols... digital... P's PWM....

OTAs (Small Stone) are nice when you only plan on having a few stages and not a extremely deep phase, because you don't have to worry about matching components. Vactrols would be suggested for a similar situation. More then 4 stages are best done with FETs (phase 45/90), they take up the least space, but they require matching which can be a little frustrating in a production situation, maybe.

I'm actually designing a phaser for myself right now, trying to get the widest usefulness out of it... Pleasing just-a-little-bit sounds and massively wet swooshes all in the same box. Right now I have it at 8 stages, switchable to four, using FET all-pass filters. I may see whether having the option of 10 stages will be worth it. Experimenting with feedback methods at the moment.

[devi ever]

I think she's just designing one and she wants to document the process here. She's not asking this forum to design the pedal for her.

This is exactly what I mean. <3

[R.G.]

I think she's just designing one and she wants to document the process here. She's not asking this forum to design the pedal for her.

This is exactly what I mean. <3

OK. So you want to just tell us your internal thought processes as you design a phaser, not using the forum to answer your questions or do you homework for you, but instead a quiet, appreciative audience.

That's cool.

So let's let the lady work guys. No piping in with helpful suggestions or answers, let's just see how it's done by a pro. I for one am all ears. I can always stand to learn a thing or two. Maybe others here can too. As Casey Stengel said, "You can observe a lot by watchin'."

Go for it, Devi.

[devi ever]

Yeah ,if its for a commercial venture don't use these forums for free press > free design help.
If its for your own use,something you will have open for anyone to copy and build themselves.

I do plan on building and selling the Fay Zher, but the reason I wanted to do this here wasn't for publicity at all but to become better acquainted with the DIYsb community and share the experience with anyone interested, because I'm truly starting from the ground up in terms of experience since all I know about is low-tech fuzz devices at this point.

Yet, I want this to be a completely open design experience, so when I say that I'm here to document the process, I'll be blogging about what I'm doing all along the way, so if anyone finds inspiration by it or wants to use my design ideas, they'll be free to.

Like I've said before, I will post the final schematic for anyone else who wants to build them on their own.

I really hope you guys will be down for this.  I know this will be a great experience for everyone involved, and if anyone has issue with the fact that what I'm documenting here in this thread will go on to be sold, you can always just not read this thread and refrain from giving me advice.

I've always been a big advocate of DIY (most of my circuits are available via my own DIY forum) and recently someone turned me onto this forum which I hadn't realized had grown into such a big community... so yeah... I'm really hoping to give back during this process and this seems like the best place to make it happen!

I mean, sweet lord, I'm going to be discovering filters and LFOs and who knows what else and I figure it might be fun / helpful to see a noob go through the entire experience.

As I said before, I want to do this from the ground up, and what I mean by that is not just copy paste schematics from other builds, so I am in NO WAY looking for easy way out answers during this process.  The kind of questions and advice I'll be seeking are going to be very basic and rudimentary things at first and later down the line probably asking for help when I get stuck, but I really want to do most of this on my own.

I think you will find yourself not sticking to the "from the ground up" idea for very long. Electronics is a field where mostly everything gets designed by looking at what other people have done previously. There aren't too many methods of designing a phaser, it's pretty much guaranteed to a) have been done before or b) not work well/at all.

We'll see.  Ha ha.  I realize there are certain tried and true ways of doing things, and certain things that just simply _have_ to be done a certain way, but I really am hoping to come at this project with a clean mind and a fresh slate.

I'd love for it to be as original as possible where I can be.

I have some ideas in mind, especially where the filter is involved that I don't think has really been explored before.

Have you decided what method you are going to use for time delay? OTAs, FETs, Vactrols... digital... P's PWM....

Ha ha.  I don't even know how to design an LFO or filter yet, let alone all the little in's and out's of what's going to need to be involved with making a phaser.  I literally JUST read yesterday on what exactly a phaser is in a very general sense.

I do know that I want to keep it analog if at all possible, and using relatively easily available parts.

but they require matching which can be a little frustrating in a production situation, maybe.

Word.  Yeah, I'll definitely be designing based around mass production to a certain degree, because I want to be able to make a lot of these for people out there who want them!

OK. So you want to just tell us your internal thought processes as you design a phaser, not using the forum to answer your questions or do you homework for you, but instead a quiet, appreciative audience.

No piping in with helpful suggestions or answers, let's just see how it's done by a pro.

No no no.  I would _love_ some help and advice along the way, but once again I won't be leaning on this place as you say to "do my homework for me".

Seriously.  I hope the powers that be won't be upset if conversation comes up in regards to working things out along the way.

Give me a chance.  I promise as you see this develop over time you'll see it's a good thing and that I'm not here to abuse the DIYsb community.  

... and I might be a pro pedal business-woman and fuzz designer, but I'm definitely a complete noob like anyone else starting from the beginning when it comes to modulation!

I'm still a month or so from getting really heavily into this project.  Will post updates as soon as there's something worth posting!  

[JKowalski]

and if anyone has issue with the fact that what I'm documenting here in this thread will go on to be sold, you can always just not read this thread and refrain from giving me advice.

That's what I always felt.

I am sure there is a TON of people on these forums who are asking for help so that they can then go on and build and sell some pedals, or just lurk and leech... And we still help them... If we figure out they ended up making profit off of our generous help in the end, then we have every right to be mad at them. But if someone comes in and TELLS everyone that they plan on making a profit, then there is no reason to ostracize them! If you don't want your help turning into someone else's profit, don't offer it! I myself have no problem helping someone along to learn electronics under a commercial intention as long as they are willing to learn and not just rely on me all the way through.

If you decide to help her every single step of the way and do all the work for her, and she makes the profit you knew she planned to off of your work then all I can say is, how stupid can you be?

This forum is a really great, civilized and helpful forum but there does seem to be a kind of torch and pitchfork moment whenever commercial intentions are revealed. If you are posting solely to advertise then it's different but if it's like this then I think it's fine.

[devi ever]

If you decide to help her every single step of the way and do all the work for her, and she makes the profit of off your work then all I can say is, how stupid can you be?

Not to mention I don't want that!!!!!!

The reason I decided to go with a phase next is because I know what a challenge it will be and how much it'll force me to learn a lot about circuit design that I've only glossed over up until this point.

I'm here to learn by golly, and once again, as I post, I'm sure the skeptics will quickly see I'm more here to document the process and share than take.  

[Brymus]

I think she's just designing one and she wants to document the process here. She's not asking this forum to design the pedal for her.

This is exactly what I mean. <3

So let's let the lady work guys. No piping in with helpful suggestions or answers, let's just see how it's done by a pro. I for one am all ears. I can always stand to learn a thing or two. Maybe others here can too. As Casey Stengel said, "You can observe a lot by watchin'."

Go for it, Devi.

Heaven Forbid We as a forum actually help a newcomer and answer some questions especially when someone tells us not too.
I guess if we all had 30+ years of experience ,yada yada,we wouldnt need these forums would we ?
And on the note of doing homework ,where exactly should we be doing this homework ?
I thought this was DIYstompboxes for helping learn about DIY stompboxesIt really makes me upset when people act like asking a question is trolling for someone else to do the work.
At least she is being forth right about her intentions,perhaps in a few years she can start answering questions by posting a link to her book for sale just something to think about.

[Strategy]

Commercial/boutique builders could/should give back to this community by opening up selected designs to public domain building and PCB runs for sale. I can't afford pedals from the makers I would wish to support, except once every 4 years or so when I earn royalties from a record or something and can reinvest in my studio and music equipment. The relative economy is actually partly what brought me to DIY. Even then, I have to space out my builds based on cash flow.

If commercial pedal releasers want to participate there should be some way to allow that, because the coolest pedal makers out there (list too long to mention) are surely inspiring to the people here. We help them- then they help us...by making their projects openly copyable or purchaseable in PCB form!!!

If I could buy PCB's and do home brew versions of their released pedals. Like 4ms for example. It's a way of getting the same product out to people with different income levels and interests. Buy the pedal, or buy the kit.

Hint hint Devi Ever and other boutique pedal makers on the forum. We want PCB's! Bring on the PCB's! Until then I'll see if I can put enough $ in my piggy bank for a Devi Ever Shoe Gazer from Old Town Music here in Portland.

- Strategy

[devi ever]

Hint hint Devi Ever and other boutique pedal makers on the forum. We want PCB's! Bring on the PCB's!

I plan on doing this eventually, but I have to get my business more organized so that I could handle all the individual PCB orders.  The paperwork involved with each little PCB sale at this point would be such that I'd have to charge like $15 a PCB even for the small ones (which they all are at this point).

Yeah... gimme time.  I'll definitely do it this year. 

[Strategy]

$15 for a pcb totally falls within an acceptable range, depending on the size of the project..I have spent anywhere from $3.00 to $40.00 on pcbs. I've always mostly just felt stoked that I could build it myself. That would be righteous if you can get that off the ground Devi. I highly encourage it!!

DIY Shoe Gazer or bust!

Cheers
- Strategy

[frequencycentral]

I found this to be good reading when I got into vibe/phase design: http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/phasers/phase.html

Also worth studying and picking apart the great designs of the past: P45, P90, P100, SS, Ross, Phaseur Fleur etc.

[slacker]

Welcome to the forum

I like the idea of documenting the design process, be interesting to see how it turns out.

[markeebee]

It would be the simplest thing in the world for Devi to design a phaser by copping a few ideas from this forum. And maybe hiding behind a false id to post a few questions.

And then we would all get angsty about her "profiting" from the ideas here.
And then somebody here would clone her final design.
And then she would get angsty with us.

This way, the end result is about the same but we avoid a conflagration and maybe learn some stuff along the way.

I wish more " commercial" builders were as honest. More power to you, Devi. I probably won't be able to offer much in the way of inspirational assistance, but I'll hold your coat.

[markeebee]

And, in order to maintain my station as Captain Innuendo, can I point out that every Fuzz Goddess has a DD?