Completely dead freshly built Silicon Tonebender

[philbinator1]

Hi Guys,

I just perfboarded my first Tonebender and i was a total flop.  when i plugged in got nothing at all, only some
slight variation in hiss when i turned the amp up real loud.  i was fiddling with it and accidentally touched the +ve
battery terminal to the -ve and vice versa and noticed some guitar noise, so did it for longer and actually got clean
guitar through the amp!  the pots worked, just no fuzz at all.  i tried to take some transistor readings but got nothing
at all.

i can't find the perf layout, but it's of the Mk II Pro with mods by Mac gus and brymus...great layout, only thing is i
don't understand the input/output jacks' lug configuration...?

it's my second or third build not with no success, getting pretty dis-heartened by it all     and yes, i have read the
faqs...i seem to understand humans much better though   

[anchovie]

don't understand the input/output jacks' lug configuration...?

What's the problem? Input/output hookup is a standard thing for the majority of effects, so this is a fundamental that you need to get the hang of!

[philbinator1]

I should have said, i don't understand the actual picture of the jacks, it doesn't seem clear to me..i wish i could find the damn thread on here!
maybe you could tell me where the various lugs or both input and output jacks usually go?  tip, ring, sleeve to ground, +ve or wherever?
I would be eternally grateful.  Well, an eternity of about a 1/2 hour anyway.   

[anchovie]

Tip is the "hot" part of the audio signal. This will go to circuit input or output, depending on the function of the jack!

Sleeve is the main part of the shaft of the plug, which goes to ground.

Ring applies to stereo jacks. With pedals this is only used with an input jack to break the battery connection if no guitar is plugged in.

This document is incredibly useful. Page 5 is the one that I use for all of my builds.

[Brymus]

Here you go Phil ,here is the thread > http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=81110.0
The orange wires are your line in and line out on the layout I made
I listed voltages in that above thread,in the post with all the pics of the finshed pedal in it.
And a heres link to my gallery for pics ,clips,that are also in the above thread > http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Brymus/
Be sure you look at RDV's and Dragonfly's schematics too as that is what I based my version off of.
The differences are small but you might like what they did better ,or not.
If you want more "splatty" sounds make the bias or "fuzz" pot 10k instead of 5k this will allow for some serious mis-biased sounds.
Also be sure to read the threads I linked to as pertinent,those are the ones I used for doing my mods to the circuit.
As a tip >what I did was I made a folder in my favorites menu called Tonebender then I bookmarked all the useful threads there.
Also try searching Mac and Tonebender this should yeild lots of useful threads,let me know how it goes.
Bryan

[soggybag]

Audio Probe!

[petemoore]

  Testjig.
  Put 2 mono 1/4'' jacks in a box, heavy Raco or other box.
  With a long wire connect the input jack tips.
  With another wire, connect the ground lugs of the jacks, and have 8'' left over.
  Plug guitar cables in the jacks, get the DMM to beep across the cable tips [the other, open ends], and beeps across the sleeves, but doesn't beep across sleeve/tip.
  Cut the long wire right in the middle, put testclips on the 3 wires coming off the jacks, 1 ground, 1 input, 1 output [use different color wire or clips], write "IN" on a piece of masking tape and put that over the left jack.
  Put a cardboard little box [short sides] or platform of any kind [as long as it's non-conductive]...any other accessories like a pot panel..
  There's your testjig, now you know your input/output wires work [clip together and test 'em again!].
  It's good to know the circuit is working before adding the box, bypass switching, jacks and anything else to the debugging process. Also makes them much easier to work on. A couple jacks and a box.

[tcobretti]

Audio Probe!

Yep.  The time is now to figure out how to build an audioprobe and start troubleshooting.  I would say without doubt the audioprobe is your best friend for tracking down problems like this. 

[philbinator1]

I have build a good audio probe, trouble is I can't seem to find easy-to-follow instructions on how to use the thing...
I think there is a tendancy for electronics pros to explain things in a complex way, assuming the utter noob (like me)
will or should understand the tech-jargon.      maybe i'll change my signature to reveal my total newbie status   

one problem i did have on a circuit (that now lies in my "Circuit Graveyard") was that at some solder points i got no
sound from my noisemaker at all.  A forum member said something about not all points produce sound, something about
dc current...?

But i musn't forget to thank you guys for replying to this thread, thank you!   

[Brymus]

One thing I do Phil, being a  newb myself (pretty much)
Is I breadboard everything first,then after I get it working I A/B lots of values to see what sounds good to me.
Then when I am satisfied ,I cant do any better at this point.
I build the circuit > leaving the one I breadboarded on the breadboard.
This gives me a working refrence to check my work against ,and makes it easier for me build that way.
I hope that helps
Bryan

[philbinator1]

One thing I do Phil, being a  newb myself (pretty much)
Is I breadboard everything first,then after I get it working I A/B lots of values to see what sounds good to me.
Then when I am satisfied ,I cant do any better at this point.
I build the circuit > leaving the one I breadboarded on the breadboard.
This gives me a working refrence to check my work against ,and makes it easier for me build that way.
I hope that helps
Bryan

Hey that's some really good advice, I never thought to do that.  I recently got a breadboard and had a failed fuzz
attempt on it; i still should have done the Tonebender Mk II on it anyway.  Live and learn eh!  Maybe i'll go back
and breadboard it.  One thing I'm wondering; do we have to have a 3PDT switch connected to the circuit for it
to work?

[tcobretti]

All you do with the audio probe is hook it up to an amp and then, uh, probe around inside the circuit.  If the signal stops at a certain transistor, for example, you now know that transistor is a problem.  At that point you start checking around that transistor for soldering issues or incorrect biasing resistors.  All the probe does is tell you where the problem is; it doesn't tell you what the problem is.

Not all points will produce sound.  This is where some study will benefit you.  A good general rule is to start where the audio signal enters the circuit and then follow it.  Study the schematic as you go, it'll help you understand the flow of the signal. In very general terms, and with simpler circuits, it'll move horizontally from left to right across the schem.  If you get to point that isn't making sound, you can always post a link to the schem, and then tell us exactly where you are losing the signal, and we'll tell you if there is a problem.

Everybody was a newb.  I still barely understand this stuff.  I have a decent working knowledge from experimentation, but understanding is something else altogether.  Ask questions, and study on your own, and you'll figure it out.

[boogietube]

I started by reading everything from these  sites after my first build was not successful:

www.geofex.com

http://www.muzique.com/

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=5&Itemid=27

Then, I read every post by R.G Keen and Mark Hammer.
I followed the diagrams, and learned how it all worked. Hey, I still don't understand all of it (nobody does) , but I have a great idea how things happen.
This is a hobby with a steep learning curve (like forever)
Signal, bias, ground, op amps, transistor theory, resistance, capacitance , inductance, wiring are all things that should be understood before attempting anything. My first build was a PT-80. I never got it to work. I didn't understand it. My second build was a Big Muff. It didn't work either, but with the knowledge posted at these sites, I understood how to troubleshoot it. I got it to work. Every project since has worked because of the great advice posted here.
Be patient. Learn and hone skills.
We'll gladly help, but some of us get a little pissed (not me personally) when someone hasn't the basic knowledge and tries to paint by numbers.
Cheers!
Sean

[philbinator1]

All really good advice, and i appreciate it!  I have done some study, but i being a quite hands-on guy i eventually thought "$%# it"
and just tried to build something.  But now i reaslise the error of my ways; so in a compromise i'm making some really basic circuits
(555 timer/flashing led kinda thing) and learn some more along the way.  Maybe dove a little deep to begin with     

it's amazing to me how truely *massive* the topic/hobby is.