Info for O-Scope newbs

[Brymus]

I have been doing my homework,and I made a little progress.
Albiet my arm is about to fall off and my eyes ache,but I thought I would pass the fruits of my labor along to the forum.
First a PDF from an Oscope reburshing clearing house ,a 64 page tutorial > http://www.valuetronics.com/vt/assets/pdfs/Oscilloscope_Tutorial.pdf

And REALLY useful write up and what types to buy and the differences in actual use while biasing 3 classic amps with different sets of tubes>
http://www.tone-lizard.com/Oscilloscopes.htm
He walks us through biasing the 3 amps using a frequency generator>amp>dummyload>scope   then he starts the proccess over on each amp using different "grades" of scopes starting with the cheapest- least bandwidth,then moving up to his best or "go to" scope.
This demonstrates how better bandwidth/features can be useful.
He also has even more useful links on scope use on his page - enjoy
Bryan

[Skruffyhound]

Thanks for that Bryan, it looks like I'm in the market myself, after spending all last night working on my old analogue Russian scope I really understood alot. Unfortunately I also understood that whatever controls the left/right/horizontal travel component is broke on mine.
        I've read the tone-lizard article before, but I'll get more out of it now. The Pdf is new to me.
        Good luck in your search.

[Skruffyhound]

That Pdf is great, really well written for newbs, now I know the correct term for what is broken on mine

[bumblebee]

Thanks dude, I plan on getting one eventually but know ZERO about them.

[Brymus]

I got my scope yesterday,A Tektronix 465b It is pretty daunting to say the least,but way cool.
I used one channel to monitor the input to my pedal (sine wave) and the other channel to watch the output (squared off) that is pretty neat.
I could watch how much the clipping diodes square off the wave form using the "warp" control to add them in.
Anyway here is two more PDFs ,these are from Tektronix,please dont repost them... but if you need this info here it is without having to register at Tektronix to get it.
ABCs of Probes >http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Brymus/datasheets/ABCs+of+probes.pdf.html
XYZs of Scopes>http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Brymus/datasheets/XYZs_of_scopes.pdf.html
Enjoy,  Bryan

[Brymus]

Here are some tools to use >http://www.electronics-lab.com/downloads/pc/index.html
On that page you will find a FREE sine wave generator,FREE PC oscilloscope, a trial version software PC Oscope, FREE wave form analizer,and a few more.
Havent tried any yet,but plan on using the sinewave generator tonight.
More to come...
I hope this saves you guys alot of google time,I know looking this stuff up is the least fun part of this hobby  

This guy has lots of neat test software,test tone generaotors,virtual oscopes ,free trial/share ware,it looks pretty impressive,boasts high accuracy,the audio analizer is supposed to go through the entire spectrum of harmonic orders in real time...>http://www.esseraudio.com/

This site has LOTS of FREE /shareware test software>http://3d2f.com/tags/sine/wave/generator/software/

Here is a suare wave generator project using a 555 timer IC ,If I have time I will build this tonight  
Looks nice and easy...>http://www.talkingelectronics.com.au/html/SquareWaveOsc.html

Here is a suare wave sim model using the 555 IC ,this circuit is even simpler than the one above.
All of Falstad's sims are way cool and useful.>http://www.falstad.com/circuit/e-555square.html

[robmdall]

Aron posted this a day or two ago (in case anyone missed it). http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=82326.0

[Brymus]

Aron posted this a day or two ago (in case anyone missed it). http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=82326.0

Hey THANKS  ,I did miss it,but I was out of town for several days.
That one looks way useful too,It does > sine ,square ,and triangle using basic 4558 ICs.
Another one to try out on the breadboard later.

[Skruffyhound]

Check out this thread http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=75499.0
and then this http://electronics-diy.com/electronic_schematic.php?id=794
and this http://www.nuxie1.com/guides/fungen-v2-kit.html
The same chip is used for some fun noise makers, check out Denha on youtube.
I've got a couple I'm getting around to using.
Great you are posting all the scope info. I just haven't got time to check it all out yet, but this thread is bookmarked.

[Brymus]

Aron posted this a day or two ago (in case anyone missed it). http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=82326.0

Hey THANKS  ,I did miss it,but I was out of town for several days.
That one looks way useful too,It does > sine ,square ,and triangle using basic 4558 ICs.
Another one to try out on the breadboard later.

It uses 1458 op-amps ,not 4558 ....    I cant edit my post.

[PRR]

It will use "any" general purpose op-amp.

It is an excellent tutorial concept, step-by-step through 4 stages.

The "sine" wave is pretty nasty (and in this concept, could be better with one more cap).

It can not change frequency easily. Must change 3 parts (4 with improved sine).

The Schmitt and integrator function generator will change freq with one part. Has solid Square and Triangle outputs.

Good sine is tough. There's many ways to shave this cat, but it still has triangle tips. If 2% THD is acceptable (it often is; it's all I have in the house now), the shave-tri is cheep and cheerful. For <1% THD, you want a sine-only oscillator (or these days, a PIC and a DAC).

[Brymus]

It will use "any" general purpose op-amp.

It is an excellent tutorial concept, step-by-step through 4 stages.

The "sine" wave is pretty nasty (and in this concept, could be better with one more cap).

It can not change frequency easily. Must change 3 parts (4 with improved sine).

The Schmitt and integrator function generator will change freq with one part. Has solid Square and Triangle outputs.

Good sine is tough. There's many ways to shave this cat, but it still has triangle tips. If 2% THD is acceptable (it often is; it's all I have in the house now), the shave-tri is cheep and cheerful. For <1% THD, you want a sine-only oscillator (or these days, a PIC and a DAC).

Thanks for that info Paul.
I was wondering if other op-amps would work...now I know 
Would you mind drawing an improved version (with the extra caps you mentioned )and posting it in this thread? PLEASE
You seem to know exactly what is needed to improve it. I want to use it for testing my amps,and pedals using my scope.

[Brymus]

OK I spent what free time I had last night reading the PDFs and other info from the links above and on the www.
It appears that most of them are plagerizations of the Tektronix XYZs of scopes,I even found A web site on oscope training made from the same PDF,they just removed the Tek logos 

Anyway after some more searching I found an excellent traning video from a school or university > http://www.youtube.com/user/joyce8777#p/u/12/q_AFL5K1FQA
This is an hour long video cut into 6 parts,the first part is on the bottom of the list and they go in order from there upwards.
This is BY FAR the best info I have found yet ,it explains all the functions and walks you through doing basic measurments.
I was not sure I was using mine correctly... and now I know what I was doing right and wrong.
I highly recommend watching all 6 segments with your scope next to you so you can follow along.
It is a little dated,but the info is just what I was looking for,stuff not covered in the PDFs
Bryan

[robmdall]

Great find. Going to work through them this weekend.

Dated?? Heck, the scope I just bought off ebay looks older then the one in the vids 

[philbinator1]

Thanks dude, I plan on getting one eventually but know ZERO about them.

ditto   

[Brymus]

It will use "any" general purpose op-amp.

It is an excellent tutorial concept, step-by-step through 4 stages.

The "sine" wave is pretty nasty (and in this concept, could be better with one more cap).

It can not change frequency easily. Must change 3 parts (4 with improved sine).

The Schmitt and integrator function generator will change freq with one part. Has solid Square and Triangle outputs.

Good sine is tough. There's many ways to shave this cat, but it still has triangle tips. If 2% THD is acceptable (it often is; it's all I have in the house now), the shave-tri is cheep and cheerful. For <1% THD, you want a sine-only oscillator (or these days, a PIC and a DAC).

Does anyone else know how to improve this in the manner PRR stated ?
I am not versed enough to just change 4 caps without knowing which ones and to what value.
Would someone else be so kind as to explain ? I want to build this using some different op-amps since paul said "any" will work.
Thanks Bryan

[Brymus]

OK I got the PC sine/audio generators installed on my PC and even the free ones are pretty cool.
Even the free o-scopes seem adaquate for stompboxes.
I suggest you guys check them out if you need one.
For the bench I discovered the "quick and dirty" generator at GEO FX while i was reading up about Ge transitor selecting and RG was even kind enough to explain in detail how to improve it to a not so dirty version.
Instead of just saying it could be done...
So for convienence and becuase I like all the stuff at GEO I am going to build it instead,thanks again RG
I should have checked there first.

[Brymus]

Thought I would do an update to this page so to start there is this
Here is something else I found that is useful this http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/worksheets/scope1.html
and this  http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/worksheets/scope2.html
These come from here http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/worksheets/index.html
Which is to help subsidize this http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/

Paul Marossy has a couple of good ones > this http://diyguitarist.com/ Look under test equipment and you will find a very simple test tone generator (1.1Khz and 2.2Khz)(and some other useful stuff)(look at the scope links too)
Which is fairly close to this one here http://my.integritynet.com.au/purdic/square-wave-generator.htm
I am going to build this one also and try to use the formula Ian provides to add a couple of frequencies.
It just so happens I have the EXACT same enclosures that Paul used for his GEO "quick and dirty" signal generator ,that I also bought at the thrift store almost a year ago ,and am going to put my DIY test gear in.
I would recomend the $ 2.99 aluminum emclosure from Radio Shack for these since they wont be stomped on and are easy and cheap.
BTW all of Ian Pudie's stuff is superb and very helpful to the DIY selfer,you could spend days covering the basics up through the advanced ideas and projects,his book recomendations are good too > http://my.integritynet.com.au/purdic/index.html#rf-amplifier-design
Be sure to explore all his pages, as the site is more of a sprawling type with links on other pages not available on the main index page.

This page is full of links to different oscillators and such ,I havent even looked at a fraction of whats available here > http://www.discovercircuits.com/O/o-sine.htm

Here is a really neat page about HP scopes http://www.hpmemory.org/wb_pages/wall_b_page_02.htm
A page dedicated to Tektronix scopes (may be on Pauls site too IDK) http://www.reprise.com/host/tektronix/home/default.asp
Another page with links to good info on Tek stuff http://www.logwell.com/tech/oscilloscopes/index.html
Some info and specs on the Tek 466 and DM44 http://www.tucker.com/images/images_spec/00000442.pdf

If anyone needs the owners + service manuals for the Tek 465 family PM me and I will send them to you.
Well thats all I have for now,If anyone has anything else useful please update.
Bryan

[Skruffyhound]

Thanks for the update, lots of good stuff

[Brymus]

Thanks Skruffy glad you liked it
I was really stoked when going through the FAQ
I found my thread on Oscopes listed...Nice to know I did something that Aron found useful
Here is something a 64 page TuT on PC DSO (digital storage oscope) http://www.k7qo.net/oscilloscope.pdf
This guy has some neat stuff on his home page http://www.k7qo.net/
Check out the Motorola small signal transistor manual (parts 1-4) at the bottom of his page.(over 60 megs each)
And his use of copper clad to make enclosures...AND face plates,by soldering the copper clad into a box and gluing a printout onto the face and clear coating it.The results were WAY better than I imagined they would be.
I have often thought of using FR4 for a faceplate myself...
Anyway one thing I have noticed searching out info-
Is that these amature radio guys have some serious DIY skillz !!!
BTW he states emphatically DO NOT USE THESE SCOPES FOR VOLTAGES ABOVE 35V,NO TUBE OR MAIN LINE USE