Got a MN3011... what to do with it?

[Scruffie]

So I received a MN3011 in trade today from a kind gentleman and now i'm wondering how I can put it to good use (no, good use is not sending it to you )
There's the datasheet reverb project with a MN3101 which i'll probably try but I hear the reverb from it isn't held in high regard (although I haven't heard a sample of it yet and i'm already set for actual reverb so a strange sound could be good)

I did find one set of samples though from this project using one http://www.doepfer.de/A1882.htm with the third sample sounding the most interesting to me...

Anyway... apart from the STD-1 which is a huge project (Unless Mr. Hammer ever accomplished his goal of shrinking it down into a more DIY friendly version?) i've gone through the threads and can't see any obvious projects to try with it, so has anyone got any suggestions to put on the breadboard? Some kind of trailing delay? Or am I on my own with this chip...

Thanks in advance!

[theehman]

That's the same chip used in the vintage EH Solid-State Reverb pedal.  I'd be interested in having a spare if you're open to trades for other, more usable, delay ICs.

[Scruffie]

That's the same chip used in the vintage EH Solid-State Reverb pedal.  I'd be interested in having a spare if you're open to trades for other, more usable, delay ICs.

I'm not interested in a trade at the moment i'm afraid, but if you get into a bind I suppose you could keep me in mind, however when searching for circuits to use I did find a british supplier with some in stock (and even MN3010 at £50... compared to a MN3005 at £92  ) if that'd be of interest? They weren't cheap though, about £16 a pop.

[Mark Hammer]

It IS a most delicious and tempting chip.  At the same time, if solid-state reverb is the goal, the various digital chips currently available will likely do a more satisfying job of that task.  In view of their relative rarity, a suitable trade might well get you some chips of far greater utility.

If course, if you do have a bit of time and some parts on your hands, you can always throw this thing together, plug your MN3011 in a socket, give a listen and then make your decision.  http://www.synthdiy.com/show/?id=873  Note that the PCB layout needs to be flipped for PnP compatibility, and the gaps within the traces and pads need to be blackened up a bit.  I've etched and populated the board myself, but have not wired and fired it up.  

[Scruffie]

Solid State Reverb isn't the only goal for me (unless it offers a particularly unique sound compared to my digital reverb) and while a trade may be useful... you've got to try these things really haven't you which is part of the reason I was given it, to see what I could do with it (Plus I can hold onto it for any other repairs I might run into... maybe a broken A/DA STD-1 that someone wants to sell me cheaply )

I've got plenty of time, I just lack the parts but they can be picked up! I'll redraw the PCB layout a bit later and then see if I can find someone to make me a board up when I can afford it... or slave over a vero layout.

For shame Mark...  i'll be interested to hear what you get out of it if you do get it finished, i'm also interested in the other things that can be done with the chip other than solid state Reverb... I can see it being interesting for experiments but I don't wanna go too far with experiments as I doubt i'll ever see another one and I don't wanna damage it!

[Mark Hammer]

I still have an experimental perf project I was working on to produce a "reduced STD-1", using an MN3011 that Jeorge Tripps was kind enough to send my way, but it is sitting amidst a much larger pile of half-finished boards.  One day.  One day.

[12Bass]

Given the tapped delays, the MN3011 appears best suited for short reverb, or maybe a multi-tapped chorus type effect.

[rustypinto]

With the proper EQing, you can approximate spring reverb. It does produce a sort of "bouncy" reverb tone of its own, kind of a step further than the "bucket reverb" from a single tap BBD. It is unique to my ears though, i will give it that. I am about to do a bunch of recordings of many different pedals i designed, maybe i can spend some time recording this guy.

Here it is:

[Scruffie]

That'd be great if you could get a recording of it down  , then I could decide if I wanted to go with Reverb or another project with it (don't wanna end up with a large quantity of parts and different projects and only one MN3011 between them all)

[Mark Hammer]

One of the things I've noticed about those few circuits I've seen that use a 3011 to mimic reverb is that they apply filtering with a very broad brush rather than in a strategic way.  The attempt to produce a reverberant sound seems to be attempted purely by adjusting the level of each repeat/tap, with no effort whatsoeever put into differentially filtering them.  In the real world, early reflections are brighter, and later ones duller.  Consequently, one would expect that each tap would be filtered differently, if one was aiming for realistic reverberation. 

While it does not "nail" reverb in any sense, adding some lowpass filtering onto the regeneration path can make an analog or digital delay sound much more like reverb than it normally does, by making earlier and later reflections/repeats different-sounding.  I would imagine the same strategy applied to a 3011-based reverb would yield some pleasing results.

I guess the punch line is that one needs to differentiate the quality of reverb simulation achieved merely because one used a 3011, and the quality achieved because one used a 3011 intelligently.  My gut sense is that most commercial attempts wimped out and cut some very crucial corners.

[Scruffie]

Aha, so the reverbs I get from projects should really be expanded upon to get the best out of the chip, makes sense...

[Scruffie]

I still have an experimental perf project I was working on to produce a "reduced STD-1", using an MN3011 that Jeorge Tripps was kind enough to send my way, but it is sitting amidst a much larger pile of half-finished boards.  One day.  One day.

Bringing this thread back up...
Mark I don't suppose you can give anymore explanation to this "reduced STD-1" as in... what you've taken out, i'm still looking at uses for this chip and after reading the STD Manual it'd be nice to pull something simmilar off but without some of the unneccesary features.

Also did you get a chance to get a recording down for your 3011 Reverb Rusty Pinto?

[aziltz]

Anyone know where to find a few MN3011s?  I'm wondering if there still available somewhere in quantity since they don't seem to have been used that often in circuits.  Perhaps a nice group buy could hook up a bunch of people in the forum with a few.

[Scruffie]

Anyone know where to find a few MN3011s?  I'm wondering if there still available somewhere in quantity since they don't seem to have been used that often in circuits.  Perhaps a nice group buy could hook up a bunch of people in the forum with a few.

Hijacked  

They still exist in small pockets here and there.. pretty expensive though they usually go for £20ish they're not available in any commercial quantities as far as I know (Mark mentioned an old contact in his previous posts but that may be a venture that has sinced past)

Also the lack of any particular project to use them for negates the motivation for many people to get them so they tend to be kept for repairs of old gear or to build something specifically in mind (of which there are few projects, hence me starting this thread)

The last 'group' that I can think of was when Steve of Smallbear was selling them but that was way before my time on these forums, it's another one of those chips where the past should be let go and development should be done with newer or more available chips.

Well that's how it seems from my end anyway, i'm by no means the be end of end all... while it may be nice to each have one at the end of the day it's probably not worth tracking them down and buying them in a group still probably wouldn't get the price down that much which would mean alot of people wouldn't be interested in aquiring them, especially with the above point of there being few projects to use them in and a high price.

[Mark Hammer]

I still have an experimental perf project I was working on to produce a "reduced STD-1", using an MN3011 that Jeorge Tripps was kind enough to send my way, but it is sitting amidst a much larger pile of half-finished boards.  One day.  One day.

Bringing this thread back up...
Mark I don't suppose you can give anymore explanation to this "reduced STD-1" as in... what you've taken out, i'm still looking at uses for this chip and after reading the STD Manual it'd be nice to pull something simmilar off but without some of the unneccesary features.

My operating parameters were 4 knobs, two stompswitches, and a couple of toggles.  So that certainly did not leave room for all the custom features of  the STD-1.  I'll have to look up the conceptual plans for it, since I don't exactly remember (been a couple of years, now).  Perhaps the half-finished perf will provide some clues.  I seem to recall that, beyond speed and depth, there was a global clean-lift (for vibrato), a dual gang for blending  taps with the mixer for each output channel, possibly a regen pot for flanger-like sounds, and a couple of 3-position toggles to flip "tap-assignment", such that tap 1 went to A and tap 2 to B, or vice versa, and the same thing repeated for taps 3 and 4, 5 and 6.  If memory serves, the intent was that one could have up to 3 taps heard/mixed in each output channel, with some modest limits as to which taps.   The described arrangement certainly would not give you all the possibilities the STD-1's panel of controls and switches provides, but you'd certainly be able to nail quite an array of sounds in a 1590BB-sized device.

Also did you get a chance to get a recording down for your 3011 Reverb Rusty Pinto?

That's someone else's not mine.

[aziltz]

http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/467387-bbd-multi-tap-audio-sig-delay-12-mn3011.html

I was thinking more along the lines of designing a project for it if it was available.

[Valentinych]

Hi, Scruffie! I develop my reverberator at MN3011. I have 6 ICs 3011. But I want to make stereo reverberator with two modes – long and short. To do this, add to the schema is MN3007. Until the end of March I hope to finish this project, and be sure to show it on this site, as well as “Analog Delay from Russia”. http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=82708.0

[Scruffie]

I still have an experimental perf project I was working on to produce a "reduced STD-1", using an MN3011 that Jeorge Tripps was kind enough to send my way, but it is sitting amidst a much larger pile of half-finished boards.  One day.  One day.

Bringing this thread back up...
Mark I don't suppose you can give anymore explanation to this "reduced STD-1" as in... what you've taken out, i'm still looking at uses for this chip and after reading the STD Manual it'd be nice to pull something simmilar off but without some of the unneccesary features.

My operating parameters were 4 knobs, two stompswitches, and a couple of toggles.  So that certainly did not leave room for all the custom features of  the STD-1.  I'll have to look up theconceptual plans for it, since I don't exactly remember (been a couple of years, now).  Perhaps the half-fiished perf will provide some clues.  I seem to recall that, beyond speed and depth, there was a global clean-lift (for vibrato), a dual gang for blending  taps with the mixer for each output channel, possibly a regen pot for flanger-like sounds, and a couple of toggles to flip "tap-assignment", such that tap 1 went to A and tap 2 to B, or vice versa, and the same thing repeated for taps 3 and 4, 5 and 6.  If memory serves, the intent was that one could have up to 3 taps heard/mixed in each output channel, with some modest limits as to which taps.   The described arrangement certainly would not give you all the possibilities the STD-1's panel of controls and switches provides, but you'd certainly be able to nail quite an array of sounds in a 1590BB-sized device.

That seems to make a fair amount of sense, I certainly don't have the need for quite so many controls, just to get the basic overall sound of the unit...
It's a monster of a schematic but i'm gunna give re-drawing it a shot over the next few days to clear it up for myself and then hopefully i'll be able to see it in sections a bit easier.

Also did you get a chance to get a recording down for your 3011 Reverb Rusty Pinto?
That,s someone else's not mine.

Sorry that was a bit unclear, I was asking the user Rusty Pinto, not calling you one 

http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/467387-bbd-multi-tap-audio-sig-delay-12-mn3011.html

I was thinking more along the lines of designing a project for it if it was available.

Yeah I understand that but with the prospect of them being so unavailable, I don't think that many people would be interested in designing a project for them, I have nothing against the idea myself as it would save me the hassle!  but I just think probably enough people wouldn't be able to get hold of them and designing with more modern chips is probably a better answer, but if you want some i'm sure they can be tracked down.

Hi, Scruffie! I develop my reverberator at MN3011. I have 6 ICs 3011. But I want to make stereo reverberator with two modes – long and short. To do this, add to the schema is MN3007. Until the end of March I hope to finish this project, and be sure to show it on this site, as well as "Analog Delay from Russia". http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=82708.0

Ah yes i've seen your Analog Delay it looks nice (You have MN3011s and MN3005s!) I have a couple of MN3007s spare so i'll be interested to see what you come up with, i've heard of them being paired in reverb circuits in the past but never actaully seen it done so i'll keep an eye out for yours 

[aziltz]

my interest was really just curiosity.  I'd never heard of the MN3011 before and I couldn't find anything using it.