Your Favorite audio battery ?

[petemoore]

  Thank you for reading, 'll try not to overcomplicate by detailing how to keep this simple,
 Your favorite battery for the favorite battery 'balance' of features:
1  Price Vs. Current/votlage characteristics
2  Size/weight
3  Rechargability
 ...anything else. I left out safety to add simplicity to the discussion, figure out what's safe for the application.
 Perhaps I should have phrased it ''portable power'', maybe 1 amp or so, LM3886, >20v [split supply] gets it working, some more voltage'd be fine, especially if it can somehow drop the pricepoint [lol].
1 Some batteries go on sale pricing regularly, whether this is advantageous in the long run compared to the other more expensive batteries I don't know.
2 There are some hearing aid batteries I'd like to play around with [big stock of wrong size], any experineces welcome.
  Also, does having larger supply capacitors draw about a lot more current? I have 4700uf/80WV capacitors on the +/_ rails.
  It looks like there are some super performers in the lithium ion category, anyone try these for an amp with heat sink?
 

[jkokura]

I don't like batteries. I tend to use power supplies...

But I didn't really think that batteries really varied that much - size and weight? Why does that matter? I can understand wanting longer lasting batteries, but my experience has been that batteries will run out when they run out, and the brand doesn't have much to do with it. I've used Energizers that lasted longer than duracells, and duracells that lasted longer than energizers. Rechargeables are only slightly better on the environment but can be lots better on the pocketbook. What I do like is the option to have a portable powersupply available in some of my pedals. Not many of my pedals get battery clips anymore.

If you're looking for something other than typical pedal 9V I don't know much about that.

Jacob

[petemoore]

If you're looking for something other than typical pedal 9V I don't know much about that.
  Size, power, cost.
  Maybe..
  Cost, weight and power..no.
  That's why I'm asking.
  If typical 9v [assuming you are referring to E-R or Dura-C standard alkalines], which I do use a lot, would be good for powering a Dual Mono LM3886 in terms of cost / power characteristics / weight then this I suppose would be the favored battery.
  I have 16v alarm battery, something like this;
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=140-465
  And a clip of hearing aid batteries, 12.6v...double sticked strip [about 1/4'' wide] batteries laid in a row: _+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+, not tested.
  And another barrel of AA batteries, also 16.0v.
  Car batteries.
  Which ones should I not charge outside [I set the timer when 'we're around ?
  There are many charts that seem a bit difficult to cross reference, and of course reading those I haven't seen a horror story yet, mostly factual looking, slightly flowery at times.

[Wild E]

Being an electrician by trade I hate batteries but they do have their place. Like in my wireless guitar transmitter. I use a ratshack rechargeable for that. I also keep a few $1/ twopack flea market batteries around because you know it'll give out right when you're getting heavy into your jam!

[Ice-9]

My choice of 9v batteries would be a good alkaline battery, I don't use rechargables in my effects as due to the construction of rechargable's they won't give the equiv voltage. A 1.5v battery equiv in rechargable is only 1.2v so a 9v rechargable only gives a max of 7.2v (i think). So you will lose a lot of headroom straight away.
I'm not sure if any new rechargable battery technology allows for a nominal 1.5v cell instead of 1.2v, if someone has managed to do this then i'm buying all rechargables.

[waltk]

For significant power, I like these:


Here's an amp in a cigar box I made using one:



Here's what's inside:


This is a Ryobi tool lithium battery.  Nominal votage is 18V, but I've noticed you actually get 20 or 21V with a full charge.  You can find them in two sizes.  The one in the pictures is a "compact" battery - to fit in the cigar box.  The larger one is rated at 2.4 amp hours.  I've played for hours with this without running out of juice.

This application has a scavenged Behringer DR-600 reverb (mounted on the lid - draws about 100ma), a highly modified BSIAB2 (mounted on the back wall of the box - draws about 20ma), and a TDA7240-based 20 watt amp (to the left of the battery - mounted on an aluminum angle for a heat-sink) that draws about 80ma when playing at low volume.  So with a 200ma power requirement, you would expect to be able to play about 12 hours on a charge.  I don't know whether you could rig a split supply with two of them (like you can with two 9V batteries), but maybe...

Advantages:
Lightweight (lithium batteries weigh less)
Reasonable size (for the power)
High power (These batteries can deliver multiple amps if you need them)
Rechargeable (in about an hour from nearly dead)
You can power your tools with them too

Disadvantages
Pricey - I have found an outlet store that sells these relatively cheap, but it's usually cheaper to get them in a kit (so I now have 3 extra drills).

[Brymus]

Hey Walt thats a pretty cool amp you built 
I like your use of the rechargable tool batteries,very nice.

Pete I like using AA rechargeable batteries.
I use them in an 8 pack with a pot to limit V to 9V if needed.I get about 11.7v on full charge but after sitting for a day or so, they run at 10.5V for a few weeks using them on my breadboard.
Two packs of 8 make a decent bi polar supply > +/- 11V
And the 8 pack AA holders I use have snaps for 9v snap.makes it convienvent.(2$ at Rat Shack)
I have used them to power chip amps that need a 12V 2amp supply with good results as well.
For a battery powered amp (lm3886) I plan to try some of the gel cells at All Electronics ,they have pretty decent prices on the batteries and the chargers for them,the cheapest source I have found.
Should be do-able to make a decent -/+ 18V supply with two gell cells that would last several hours at loud playing levels

For regular stompbox use I generally get the cheap 1$ alkalines at the 99cent store,or the Rayovac's at Wally World.
But I plan to build a regulated supply for my breadboard and do away with batteries except for special occasions.
And another for powering my pedal board,as well as an adjustable bi polar supply for the breadboard just haven't found my round tuit yet that gets this all done.

[PRR]

> powering a Dual Mono LM3886

Is that a joke?

The LM3886 is a 68 Watt amplifier!!!

A 4 Watt flashlight takes a large battery and does not last long. A 68 Watt lamp needs more battery than you want to carry.

And '3886 won't even wake-up for less than 12V.

It can stand over 80V. Most of its specs are for +/-28V, 56V supply, where it will put 30W into 8 ohms.

Its idle current alone will drain a 6-pack of 9V batts in an hour. If you stroke a chord, they will just fall down and strangle.

Just for chuckles: stack four car batteries. $300 investment already. These will idle a '3886 for a week, play LOUD for 2 days once (ruined), a whole day hundreds of times. You need a hand-truck.

Four 1250 UPS/alarm batteries will play LOUD for a couple hours many-many times (slight abuse), cost $80, weigh a dozen pounds.

Two of Walt's powertool batteries could bring a '3886 to 16 Watts and run a couple hours, not really working hard (they work harder in the drill, but you don't drill as steady as you play). Best deal I see is $60 and 8 pounds. These do not charge with a $13 charger like lead cells do.

And using '3886 at lower voltages is wasteful: it has several volts internal loss on each side, so +/-18V in won't make much past +/-14V swing. '3886 was designed for wall-power, which is _cheep_, and loss is acceptable. Car-sound chips do much better when supply is costly, as it always is on battery.

I'm ignoring the "dual mono" part. If you really have two '3886 working you want double the lead.

The hearing-aid cells are intended to make 0.01 watt for a day or three, but will just croak if they see a 68W load.

[joegagan]

around 1979 i used to take a pignose amp and a duffel bag full of booster and phaser pedal downtown for busking. powering the pignose was a single 9v duracell. would last about two hours before the tone went to crap.

[Quackzed]

try a ruby for 2 hours....
at full tilt ...
with a rayovac.
led power optional.

[petemoore]

The LM3886 is a 68 Watt amplifier!!!
  I'm seeing it more like a small addendum to a power supply of some sort...
  Amazing as the little jobby is, the chip is a triviality compared to the PS required to make it perform 'optimally' or even.
  The 16v/16v...alarm/AA tube split supply sounds fine. I have a small, easy to run alnico that I can get enough T/B response as well as dynamics with, using even this palsy supply.
  Obviously limiting battery use with something with a heat sink is preferrable, plenty of options anyway, rechargable seems the way to go.
  After the sound effects are initiated, the chances an AC cable will make itself available goes up.

[mikemaddux]

$0.99 cent store......2 for a buck

[FiveseveN]

I hate batteries but they do have their place. Like in my wireless guitar transmitter.

Wireless transmitter? Wireless power!
http://www.ted.com/talks/eric_giler_demos_wireless_electricity.html

[Adji]

Not sure what my opinion is worth haha but I am really against batteries. They just seem like a waste of time. Apparently certain batteries can sound better in certain fuzz circuits or whatever, but for the unnecessary harm they do to the environment I choose to just use plugs instead. Oh, and it means I don't have to wire in a battery snap haha!

[Paul Marossy]

I don't do battteries, at all. The only exceptions are my guitars which have active electronics in them. My reasons for this are simple, they are IMO very expensive and they end up in a landfill somewhere. I used to use rechargeable 9V batteries years ago, but they are not actually 9V and the charge doesn't last that long, either. I'll take a wall wart power supply any day over batteries.

[Brymus]

> powering a Dual Mono LM3886

Is that a joke?

The LM3886 is a 68 Watt amplifier!!!

NO ITS NOT A JOKE,
I didn't say anything about powering two lm3886 chips >just one with a bipolar supply using two gel cells.It might need four but IIRC there were some 18V gel cells that would be perfect for this endeavor
Not the little tool ones either but the kind made for specialty uses,they are pretty cheap compared to car batteries and weigh alot less.
Yes I too have read the data sheet for the LM3886 ,in fact its printed out in a binder on my shelf...
Yes it likes at least 18v +/- bipolar supply,prefers 28 +/-or higher to get maximum efficiency/wattage but Perhaps that's not my intent
I am very happy with 20-30 watts which unless I am in an alternate reality is quite loud...
But please work the math and show me the wattage output for a single LM3886 with a +/- 18v supply,As I am probably close but not exact in my estimate.
I promise you,you will succeed in making me feel stupid by showing us how smart you are.
The gel cells are smaller and lighter than lead acid car batteries,but what if I did decide to use car batteries ?
Last I checked I was building stuff for my pleasure > not for your approval with the slide rule.
And  I have ran my car chip amps off my AA rechargeables with very good results
I was able to maintain good distortion levels at volumes loud enough to use with a REAL drummer,for several hours.
So say what you want I have done it ,I know it works.
You know alot Paul that part is obvious...
I am curious as to your motivation though,do you play an instrument ? Or are you just here to help us learn ,hopefully both.

[bumblebee]

I buy boxes of 20 9volt carbon batteries for $12 fro this surplus store, I have about 50 of them sitting in a box right now...I never run out. They last a long time too!

I only use power supplies on effect that use over 5mA and over 9 volts.

[Paul Marossy]

I forgot to mention that another reason that I don't do batteries is because I don't want to be plugging and unplugging cords into my pedals all the time. That's a pain in the neck. I like to be done playing, put the wall wart in its spot and close up the pedal board. All done. Simple and no ongoing expense of buying batteries all the time. And no batteries to go in a landfill for Wall-E to be cleaning up years after we had to leave the planet because there was too much trash for us to live here anymore.

[FiveseveN]

Gratuitous hostility aside...
Brymus, I'm sure you have your reasons but perhaps it would be helpful if we knew exactly why you need to use batteries. If you want maximum SPL out of an amplifier with limited power supply just use more efficient speakers.

[Brymus]

 
Sure All joking aside > I used them to make a good friend of mine a portable amp he could take to the beach and play his electric.
He specificly asked for a battery powered amp.The 386 + 9V wasnt loud enough with the noise at the beach so...
It works great using a car chip amp for an in dash stereo and a pack of rechargable AAs
Now he wants a bigger badder,amp for playing at keggers out in the boonies w/o having to drag along a generator...so I researched and found the gel cells seemed like the best route vs using car batteries.
The LM3886 is the highest wattage chip I have on hand,I bought them pretty cheap from a wholesaler of surplus goods.
My only reason for using it.Otherwise there are better more efficient chips for building a battery powered amp,but like most aspiring musicians he (my friend that asked for the above mentioned amps) struggles to make rent/beer money so my labor is free and the parts cost is kept to a minimum.(I dont make any money from it and he doesnt complain about how long it takes)
I use them (AA rechargeables) on my breadboard because we have a ton of AA rechargables for all the kids toys,pile of remotes,ect  and they have a zero hum factor.Which removes the power supply as a noise issue when proto typing.
And they are easy to swap out/change voltages.
I keep 9V for my pedals because sometimes you cant find an outlet,or only have one plug to share,ect, better than not using my favorite pedal/s