Add more chugg to a Big Muff

[xmugmugmugx]

I have a question about the Big Muff.  I love it's tone when i'm ripping away at chords or playing lead, but i can't seem to get that palm mute sound i want out of it.  It just goes flat and sounds terrible.  I've done some mods already to give it more gain, and i've ordered metal film caps to rplace the cheap russian mylar ones.  But it's the palm muting that i really want to improve.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

- Bob

[jacobyjd]

It's a fuzz--everything is distorted, so there's no 'meat' behind the bass frequencies when you palm-mute.

Sounds like you want something like a Dr. Boogie or a Box of Rock instead.

[xmugmugmugx]

I have a green russian version the bass response isn't bad it's actually quite bass-y.  I've looked into the dr. boogey, but it sounds to modern for what i'm going for.  I've also heard sound samples of the Russian BMP getting a pretty decent palm mute sound.

- bob

[jacobyjd]

If that's what you need, then to get more out of it, you'll have to identify where you're losing bass currently--maybe add a simple LPF bypassed around one of the clipping stages?

[xmugmugmugx]

That's actually friggin brilliant.  I hadn't thought of that.  I may give that a try.

thanks!



-bob

[oliphaunt]

Try comparing the coupling caps between the stages in the Russian vs other versions.  You may be able to pick up some more low end by increasing the size of those caps.

It goes against the grain, but I find the more I play (almost 30 years) the more I turn the gain DOWN.  More gain in a distortion/fuzz circuit like that means more compression and therefore less available dynamic range, therefore sqaushing your low end.  My personal Muff is a Triangle version with very low gain transistors and it's quite flexible (well, for a Muff anyway).

[bumblebee]

IN my experience with big muffs they just dont palm mute well,its just not in the circuit.

[John Lyons]

+1
Palm muting work well when the circuit reacts fast and there isn't a lot of overhang or lag in the dynamic response.
Big Muffs are sloppy and sluggy sounding fuzz circuits. If you want to make it more responsive you can lower the coupling
caps between stages as mentioned. This will take some gain and bass away but you can make it up in the tone section.

Also, you can make the caps in the feedback loops at the diodes larger which will tighten
up the sound a bit, (making the diodes clip more low end).

This will change the sound a good bit but make it more "chugg" friendly?

[nbabmf]

Someone very knowledgeable about the Muff said this:
"More bass into a distortion stage = more saturation and sustain, more of a thick, "singing" tone at the expense of the ability to do the tight, crunchy, palm-mute thing."

So what you want to do to tighten up that Muff is make the coupling caps smaller and/or the caps in the feedback loop bigger.  Do you know what's inside right now?

[xmugmugmugx]

It's stock, except for the emitters which i jumpered, and enlarged the limiting resistors.  I can't remember the value of the limiters, but it's larger than 10k.

-bob

[John Lyons]

But what is "stock" ? There are several different version of the big muff.
What are you calling the "limiting" resistors? The series resistors before each clipping stage?

[bumblebee]

I should have also added that you can palm mute muffs to a certain degree( I do it), you have to develop a different style of palm mute(which took a while to pick up),its kinda a lighter palm mute...IDK,its just different but it sounds good, not Slayer mutes but mutes nonetheless. You just cant palm mute with a muff and sound like Slayer! You can sound like SLayer with the Metal Muff (which isnt related to the Big Muff whatsoever), this is another great EHX pedal IMO.

[xmugmugmugx]

It's a version 7 revision C, PC board # BM-1-01.00.001.  And yes the series resistors right before the gain stage, R8 & R13.  the jumpers are on R12 and R16.  I'm not sure if it's the second or third version of this board, so that's as close a definition to stock as i can give you.  I know that it has a can style electrolytic  cap near the dc voltage supply not the little ball style cap or the larger cap's i've seen in other models

[xmugmugmugx]

I'm not looking for slayer palm muting, more like jawbreaker "dear you" era palm muting.  Early to mid nineties post hardcore/emo (like Rites of Spring and Fugazi, not whatever MTV is peddling these days.)  I usually do pull off the gain a bit.  I was reading about putting led's in place of the clipping diodes but haven't been able to find sound samples.  Has anyone done that to a muff?  is it worth even doing the wiring to put a switch in between original stock diodes and leds?

[bumblebee]

It will be more distorted/clip harder with LED's, don;t really know how it will effect muting, I cant imagine it being terribly different TBH.

Just try it maybe....

The problem is the big muff is part fuzz and fuzzes ,generally, don't palmmute well at all.

[xmugmugmugx]

Yeah i know they don't palm mute very well, but they just sound sooo good otherwise.  I bought the pedal when i was like 14 cause it was big green and made in Russia.  But i have been hard pressed to get any other sounds out of it.  It does everything else i want it to do but palm mute.  Even just a little.  I have been hard pressed to use it for this very reason, but every week i hook it up and every week i say to myself, "wow i love this thing but i just can't seem to find a sweet spot for palm muting."  then i put it away for a week and start the process over again.  Even the guys in bands i've played with have said it sounds great when i'm playing chords and soloing and other lead type parts, but as soon as i palm mute they make a face like i stabbed them in the ears.   

- bob

[bumblebee]

I love everything about it too except it lacks in an area I used to use a lot, pick scratch harmonics(think Nirvana's teens spirit kinda ) ! I just adjusted my playing style for it cause I love muffs too much to give up cause it lacks that. I still have certain songs that cannot be played on a muff and need to be played with a sansamp classic/metal muff or such device cause of the harmonics its got and the muff doesn't have.

[xmugmugmugx]

Well i hate to admit it but i did do the creamy dreamer mod, at least what i could find on the web, and harmonics and pick scrapes are not hindered at all in fact i find they are almost effortless to the point where i sometimes have to try not to get all harmonic.  But thanks for the info it has given me a good starting point for this.

[Scruffie]

Try Lifting one set of diodes... I did that mod once and I seem to remember it being chuggier although the overall feel and sound of the muff is changed a fair amount.

[xmugmugmugx]

Would i jumper the diodes or just take them out completely?