Transduced guitar = endless sustain

[kvb]

I had yanked the frets out of a crappy guitar after seeing a fretless guitar posted by someone here. I just hadn't thought about it much before, and I figured a fretless guitar would be hard to play. But, I decided that I "needed" one, and besides, the guitar wasn't being used as it was anyway. In one of the pics I show how I lowered the action of the strings by raising the neck with some washers.

Then I read the transducer thread.

This is a "transduced" guitar, as suggested by R.G. in the "transduce anything" thread in the lounge (another great tidbit of advice!). It works great but it is not like a sustainer pickup. It does not work on all strings or at all positions. It is a bit finicky, but it is very cool.
It is possible to mute the strings without getting feedback, but if the signal going to the transducer's amp is strong then feedback is hard to avoid.

I am powering the transducer with a 1W Gem Mk II (ROG).

In this clip I'm just demonstrating the fretless.
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/kvb/transducer/trnsdcr1.mp3.html

In this clip I strum twice, and then I turn on the transducer's amp.
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/kvb/transducer/trnsdcr2.mp3.html

In this last clip I play without strumming. One string doesn't want to go so you can hear me finger pull it into action once. At the end of the clip I let go of the guitar and let the chaos ensue.
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/kvb/transducer/trnsdcr3.mp3.html

Can you guess the fuzz?

[rousejeremy]

Man, that sounds awesome! I have to try this.

By the way the fuzz gates, I'm guessing a Fuzz Factory?

[kvb]

Naw, the gating sound is me turning down the volume with a very crackly pot.

[John Lyons]

Not sure of the fuzz but it sounds great! The guitar/transducer...and the fuzz.
Nice one!

[NPrescott]

Which transducer are you using, and how did you affix it to the headstock? Glue?

I'm pretty sure this is now on my must do list, it sounds great.

[Hides-His-Eyes]

From that clip I reckon you could call it the transducer-o)))

[WhenBoredomPeaks]

This is amazing, i might try this on an old Squier start, i just dont know how to make it fretless.

[Processaurus]

Shin ei, or univox superfuzz?  Sounds great, you could demand 10 grand in a paper sack from trent reznor for that sound.  How does it sound clean?, or is the fuzz what is being transduced onto the headstock?

[kvb]

Excellent Mr. Milner! It is a Superfuzz (with Si diodes). And yes, I went from the guitar > fuzz > then split the signal with a Y cable; one to big amp - one to little amp > transducer.

The transducer is glued on with epoxy. I used too much the first time and had to destroy the first transducer because it was bottoming out and buzzing. The second time I just put the epoxy around the outer edge of the transducer's plastic foot.

The jack is not held on by the copper band. The jack is epoxyed into a small recess. The band then holds the jack down so it doesn't move around.


Making a guitar fretless is not that hard. Especially if you do not care what happens to the fingerboard as you yank the frets out. There's probably some tutorials on the web.

I can add some clips with clean tones tonight.
Thanks Y'all!

[Paul Marossy]

Cool stuff.

I made a fretless guitar once a few years ago and recorded a tune using an Ebow called "Tears Of War" which is still at my MySpace Music page ( www.myspace.com/j201jams ), but I could never get the action to my liking, and roundwound strings didn't feel good on the rosewood neck. I changed it back to a fretted guitar. If I ever get a fretless guitar, it's going to be a Vigier.

Anyway, sounds conceptually similar to the Sustainiac Model C - http://www.sustainiac.com/model-b.htm , but I think yours works on a different principle. IIRC, the Sustainiac Model C actually causes the guitar itself to vibrate, and hence the strings also. It's kind of like an electro-mechanical sustainer.

[kvb]

The sustainiac C is using a transducer as well. I'm sure in the stompbox that comes with the system they've got an amp and an EQ to maximize the performance. Judging from how these next two clips sound, I'm betting that the harmonic modes involve adding distortion at the amp.

I built my MkII with a gain switch so I can only do low gain/maxed out.

Here's two clean clips

Low gain, neck pickuphttp://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/kvb/transducer/trnsdcrclnE.mp3.html

High gain, bridge pickuphttp://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/kvb/transducer/trnsdcrclnB.mp3.html

All other settings are the same

[jkokura]

That is such a cool idea, such a cool effect. I really like it.

Jacob

[petemoore]

  Cool, cheap trick ! and I have old guitars to mess with this way.
  Try a 7band EQ, by controlling the gain of frequencies to the Ducer, the string/frequency range/reactivity should follow suit, allowing you to widen/shape the sustained freqs..high/mid/low [to some extent, obviously influenced also by resonant frequencies].
  Bill made a bass with a hill in the fretboard, and cranked the truss all the way the wrong direction [just didn't seem to work that way]...
  @@Rate, it was eventually realized that the frets had to be either ground down to nothing or pulled out.
  Pulled out, we tensioned/sighted/rasped the neck to near flat, then used the "Jeff-neck" method...a carpenters 3' level with sandpaper on the straight edge..this brings a near flat neck to FLAT [if you're good, paying attention to where the wood is/isn't].
  Just a fretless bass but that trombone effect [similar deal, transducer powering the resonant sustain] is too fun and very expresssive, makes for a flip on the old fretted bass style.

[Paul Marossy]

The sustainiac C is using a transducer as well. I'm sure in the stompbox that comes with the system they've got an amp and an EQ to maximize the performance. Judging from how these next two clips sound, I'm betting that the harmonic modes involve adding distortion at the amp.

I'm sure it uses a transducer somehow. But from user reviews I have read, they said that it vibrates the headstock and makes it feel "alive" in your hands. So from reading those desriptions of it, I think it excites the strings by physically vibrating the guitar. So let's say that it's an "electro-mechanical/magnetic" sustainer system. 

In looking over the 50 page patent document for a guitar sustainer system such as the Sustainiac or Fernandes Sustainer, it appears that it does much the same as the Ebow in terms of the harmonic switch. The harmonic switch on the Ebow reverses the current thru the output coil, and this is mentioned in the patent documents for the Ebow, which I also studied. Here's my Ebow page in case anyone might be interested in reading about it: http://www.diyguitarist.com/DIYStompboxes/EbowTech.htm

[DougH]

Man, that is really cool! How does it sound with clean chords?

[Top Top]

I'm sure it uses a transducer somehow. But from user reviews I have read, they said that it vibrates the headstock and makes it feel "alive" in your hands. So from reading those desriptions of it, I think it excites the strings by physically vibrating the guitar. So let's say that it's an "electro-mechanical/magnetic" sustainer system. 

I'm pretty sure that this transducer is also physically vibrating the guitar. Those transducers are like speakers without cones - different from the ebow electromagnetic type of sustainer.

[Paul Marossy]

I'm sure it uses a transducer somehow. But from user reviews I have read, they said that it vibrates the headstock and makes it feel "alive" in your hands. So from reading those desriptions of it, I think it excites the strings by physically vibrating the guitar. So let's say that it's an "electro-mechanical/magnetic" sustainer system.  

I'm pretty sure that this transducer is also physically vibrating the guitar. Those transducers are like speakers without cones - different from the ebow electromagnetic type of sustainer.

That's my understanding, it physically vibrates the guitar. The Ebow uses something like a speaker driver without a cone. That's what the two coils inside of it do. One of those coils is the driver that excites the string. The guitar sustainer systems on the market look to me to just be expanded versions of that same concept. The Ebow uses an LM386 audio opamp, which is looking for an 8 ohm speaker load to be connected to it.

[kvb]

How does it sound with clean chords?

So far, with this guitar, not so good. The fingerboard is pretty dead for the thin non-wound strings. But the vibrations from the transducer definitely help with increasing the sustain slightly for notes, even if they don't ring out endlessly.

I just tried again to see if it would be worth making another sound clip - it just sounds bad.

I tuned the guitar to a chord and messed around with a slide for a minute. It sounds like a guitar at high volume where one string starts to dominate and feed back.


I will probably make a "clip-on" version so I can put one of these on any of my guitars or a bass. This would probably work nicely on a bass.


Maniac Music calls vibrating a guitar with a transducer "electro-acoustic sustain." On the stompbox it says "acoustic feedback sustainer."

I want to see someone here mount two of these on a guitar - one on the front, one on the back, wired out of phase. This would shake the crap out of any guitar. Watch your shoes!

[joegagan]

wow, i love  it.

great sounds

[kvb]

It's really fun. I just realized also that I should say thanks to "Petemoore" for posting the link to the transducers in the first place. Thanks, man!