Tips for the sexiest offboard wiring!

[benallison]

BUT  I Won !!!!

The fact that you made this work, amazes me.

[soggybag]

If I can get away with as little off board wiring as possible I'm happy.

[benallison]

If I can get away with as little off board wiring as possible I'm happy.

Wifi?

[DougH]

You sir, are a glutton for punishment!  Congratulations on getting that to work. 

This one in particular was a mean @#$%er to tame. 

A mean rhythm master??

http://artists.letssingit.com/tom-waits-lyrics-step-right-up-9pw9v3r

[DougH]

So is there any way to have sexy wiring that follows best practices?

No problem at all keeping things neat and tidy and nice to look at, as long as it's built to work correctly.

[frequencycentral]

I don't get this 'anti parallel' thing. Vero is parallel, plenty people use vero.

[phector2004]

does this parallel/perpendicular business have anything to do with fields and induction? 

[G. Hoffman]

does this parallel/perpendicular business have anything to do with fields and induction? 

Yes.



Gabriel

[Ronsonic]

So is there any way to have sexy wiring that follows best practices?

That's what old Hi-Watt guitar amps are for. Very pretty and very correct.

Running parallel and bundles isn't bad, it's what you're running together. I avoid solid core wire myself, it is more prone to breaking at joints, usually not a real issue for our stuff, but can become a problem for a piece that refuses to work right and has to be manipulated and handled a lot in troubleshooting.

[G. Hoffman]

So is there any way to have sexy wiring that follows best practices?

That's what old Hi-Watt guitar amps are for. Very pretty and very correct.

The thing with the old Hiwatts, and the reason why the really pretty and neat wiring (when done right) is preferable is that it is more robust, and will last longer in more demanding situations.  Harry Joyce, whose company wired all those old Hiwatt amps, was really good at this stuff.  There big contract was wiring submarines for the British Navy.  But as Ronsonic says, its all about what you put next to what.  I love all that aerospace/military grade wiring, but there is no question that it is major overkill for anything anybody here is building.  I don't know about you, but any amp or pedal I build doesn't really NEED to be able to survive a blast from high order explosives at 15 feet, nor do they need to function after a 5 gee launch in the space shuttle!  And building them that way is a lot of extra work that really isn't required.  Doing it a couple times does help you understand why military acquisition budgets always seem so high, though!


Gabriel

[Paul Marossy]

Yeah, those old Hiwatt amps have some amazingly neat wiring. I agree that building stuff as if NASA was going to launch it into orbit is a bit excessive. I guess everyone needs some sort of sales gimmick, eh?

[DougH]

I love all that aerospace/military grade wiring, but there is no question that it is major overkill for anything anybody here is building.  I don't know about you, but any amp or pedal I build doesn't really NEED to be able to survive a blast from high order explosives at 15 feet, nor do they need to function after a 5 gee launch in the space shuttle!  And building them that way is a lot of extra work that really isn't required.

Exactly.

None of this stuff is space flight hardware or even ground hardware (which I know a little about). These are toys for musicians, that's all. Our PLC racks in the mobile launcher have to handle the vibration of a Shuttle launch but a guitar amp is usually stressed from being loaded/unloaded from trucks more than anything else.  If it fails, at worst some ticket holders are disappointed, but usually inconvenienced temporarily while the roadie gets the backup fired up. No one loses their life, let alone in any particularly excruciatingly painful way, because their amp wasn't wired with military grade wiring, or dressed like a Joyce amp.

Much like "golden" hi-fi systems, it's much ado about nothing AFAIC. Akin to an ermine-lined toilet seat...

[joegagan]

from the info i have heard over the years, mil spec wiring, in addition to needing to be very durable, but also easily serviceable in field conditions.  easy dis assembly, large access panels , components all in plain view/accessible, unobstructed for replacement or testing.

[Michael Allen]

check this out

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4014

[G. Hoffman]

None of this stuff is space flight hardware or even ground hardware (which I know a little about). These are toys for musicians, that's all. Our PLC racks in the mobile launcher have to handle the vibration of a Shuttle launch but a guitar amp is usually stressed from being loaded/unloaded from trucks more than anything else.  If it fails, at worst some ticket holders are disappointed, but usually inconvenienced temporarily while the roadie gets the backup fired up. No one loses their life, let alone in any particularly excruciatingly painful way, because their amp wasn't wired with military grade wiring, or dressed like a Joyce amp.

All that being said, this is also a hobby for most of the people on this board.  If ridiculous over engineering gets you off - go for it!  But just putting everything in straight lines with pretty bends is not the way to do it.  If you are going to go that route, you need to learn enough to know what can be done while making it fully functional.  Unless all you are after is a piece of visual art - and that's cool too, if that's your thing.  

So, I guess the next step in making your pedals or amps really pretty inside is to learn the electronics part of it exceptionally well.  

I'm not there.  I would love to be able to wire up a Hiwatt clone and have it as pretty as a Harry Joyce built amp. but I am no where near having the skills.  It is something I aspire to, because for me electronics is just a hobby.  But for now, I'm more concerned with functional.  I just finished an amp, and it is perfectly functional, but far from pretty.  I intend to keep improving, and want to get to NASA like wiring; not because it is needed, but because it pleases me.  I will, I hope, NEVER do so at the expensive of a fully functioning circuit.  I see solid core wire as one of those things - it looks pretty and all, but makes the circuit less functional, at least from a maintenance point of view.  Same with ribbon cable.

It sounds like you've done some of the NASA level stuff.  It make perfect sense to me that you wouldn't want to do that any more - its work, after all - but for some of us, the process of getting there is half (or more) of the fun!  That doesn't make it required, and certainly if it is done badly it is kinda dumb, but I want to be able to do it well.  For me, its kind of an atheist's version of doing things right for the glory of God.  

Sorry, but after my Community Watch bicycle ride tonight, we went out for drinks, so I'm waxing a bit philosophical!  (Wanna hear something cool?  One of the reasons Bicycling Magazine just named Minneapolis the #1 bike city in the US is because of Trail Watch, and I was one of the founders of the program!  I think that's cool as heck!)


Gabriel

[Thomeeque]

check this out

http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4014

Should we see some pictures there? Because I don't see any Maybe it's visible only for the forum members? T.

Edit: Now I can answer myself - there's a PDF attachment with pics (visible only for the forum members) - impressive, but already "too sexy" for my taste

[Thomeeque]

On the other hand, why not to become one, right? Place looks interesting..

[DougH]

I need to make something clear. AFAIC, there's absolutely nothing wrong with making things look pretty. If you enjoy that, more power to you. Especially in this hobby- everyone should find some aspect of it they really like and excel at and do it.

The thing I've realized I'm reacting to has nothing to do with anything anyone on this board is doing, or any of the photos I've seen (which I love btw). What gets under my skin is the implication in commercial booteek circles that something that looks pretty is "better", more reliable, sounds better, etc. My point is that's not necessarily true, esp if it's a poor wiring layout to begin with. Yes, neatness does count, but only so far. It's just more of the audiophile mentality creeping into music electronics that attempts to convince people that stuff is important, that's not so important. That's what gets me on my soapbox about this stuff.

Fender and Matchless amps enjoy great reputations with musicians in general, yet have some of the ugliest wiring you will ever see in an amp. Most musicians never look inside an amp and don't care to. They care about the sound and the reliability, the stuff they see, hear, and deal with outside the amp.

[DougH]

It sounds like you've done some of the NASA level stuff.  It make perfect sense to me that you wouldn't want to do that any more - its work, after all -

On the contrary I really love my job. The music thing is a hobby and it would be completely insane for me to apply the same standards to it that I have to in my job. There's no where near as much at stake. The goals for the hobby are make something that- sounds good, is reliable, and doesn't electrocute me (or anyone else) in the process. That's pretty basic stuff and pretty easy to do. Guitar amps are godawfully primitive circuits.

[G. Hoffman]

Fender and Matchless amps enjoy great reputations with musicians in general, yet have some of the ugliest wiring you will ever see in an amp. Most musicians never look inside an amp and don't care to. They care about the sound and the reliability, the stuff they see, hear, and deal with outside the amp.

It always amuses me when people point to Fender stuff as a example of quality.  You want to know what Leo Fender's goal was?  Just barely good enough.  Why?  Because he could make it cheaply.  Now, don't get me wrong, that's not necessarily a bad thing.  He was able to make guitars and amps that were good enough, and were cheap enough for a lot of people to buy them.  That was a very good thing for the electric guitar and for rock `n roll.  But that doesn't mean you can't easily improve on a lot of his designs.  I mean, how many people actually leave their Strats stock these days?  Even just the simple expedient of shielding the cavities, which Fender never does, will make a marked improvement in their usefulness.  But Fender doesn't do it because, most of the time, it isn't a big deal. 

Still and none the less, your point is absolutely correct - this stuff isn't rocket science ( ).  For most end users, what matters is how it sounds, and how reliable it is.  But you've got to admit, a Hiwatt is a lot less likely to break down than a Fender!


Gabriel