How to price pedals?

[petemoore]

  Selling perfboard pedals ?
  Price them high, that's a lot of strokes to make a circuit work.
  Perhaps someone will buy one, then the price might make sense to someone else and a domino effect will snowball, you'll be selling pedals at a good profit to buyers who could otherwise find the same circuits for less.

[modsquad]

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

[caress]

charge what you think your time is worth + parts.
if you're not looking to have this be your main source of income, then price them in a way that makes you feel good - regardless of whether other people think that price is too high or too low.  if you feel like your fuzz is worth $50 or $500, that is your decision... whether they sell or not is another story.  simply take a look around at the market and you'll have a pretty quick idea of how to price a pedal to be in the "mainstream" price category.  there are two separate markets, imo; the mass guitar center, etc market and the boutique and/or hand-built market.  both have differences when it comes to pricing, marketing, distribution, retailers you would work with and the base you would be selling to.  i think it's important to be aware of that as well, unless you are looking to bridge that gap, as a few builders have (zvex, fulltone, etc)

[boogietube]

Sell high. Price what you can get for it.  Promote the illusion of "hand made" "selected components" and " boutique" Why not? You did all of those things. I'm proud to have someone pay $250 for a TS808. They're happy too. He has a "one of a kind" pedal.  Parts costs were high on the 808 because I used a GGG board and an expensive enclosure. Then I sold a AD3208 for $175.00. A modded wah in a hand painted re-finished enclosure fetched only $80. I broke even on that one.  It varies a lot. (you never make money on wah's)
Just make sure that you're proud of the work you did, and that your builds are of the highest quality that you can achieve. Selling yourself at HALF? of a said hourly rate is crap. If your builds are awesome, you deserve the money. Not the retailer. Let them mark it up 20-30% You deserve the rest.
Sean

[Paul Marossy]

Sell high. Price what you can get for it.  Promote the illusion of "hand made" "selected components" and " boutique" Why not? You did all of those things. I'm proud to have someone pay $250 for a TS808. They're happy too. He has a "one of a kind" pedal.  Parts costs were high on the 808 because I used a GGG board and an expensive enclosure. Then I sold a AD3208 for $175.00. A modded wah in a hand painted re-finished enclosure fetched only $80. I broke even on that one.  It varies a lot. (you never make money on wah's)
Just make sure that you're proud of the work you did, and that your builds are of the highest quality that you can achieve. Selling yourself at HALF? of a said hourly rate is crap. If your builds are awesome, you deserve the money. Not the retailer. Let them mark it up 20-30% You deserve the rest.
Sean

It really all depends on what your goal is. If you are happy selling a TS808 clone for $250 once in a while, great. Good for you. But if you are doing it for a living, I seriously doubt you are going to sell many units at that price for a circuit that isn't even original. Dealers have a lot of influence in local markets and online dealers can help increase your sales, too. If all you want to do is sell one or two a month at that price, go for it. But you'll need to have a very good reputation and a product that everyone wants so you can justify that kind of price tag if you want to sell more than that. There's also that little tried and true law of supply and demand to remember. If you can conquer that obstacle, then you can be the next Z. Vex, Fulltone, Klon or whoever you want to put into the blank.

I've also sold pedals I made for $200. That's a completely different thing from trying to get a steady income from building pedals. You generally make money off volume of sales, unless you are the Klon guy who can sell each unit for $399. But he is in a completely different category with his own rather unique pedal design. And guitar shops will not be happy with a 20-30% profit margin. They'll never buy your product. So you are not happy with that, then you are back to selling direct in whatever sphere of influence you can muster up. Choose your poison.

[MikeH]

I have my own sliding scale:

For good friends it's cost of parts + however many beers I can drink while assembling it, and you have to hang out with me and entertain me while I do it.  You may drink beer as well.

For not-so-good friends, usually parts + $50 or so, depending on the complexity of the build.

For non-friends it goes up to parts + $100

And then there's the "I really don't want to tackle that build so here's an asinine price that I think will turn you off the idea of it" price.  Usually works, but every now and then there's a fool that just can't wait to be parted with his money.  Even then it never seems worth the cost.  That's how I got roped into a 4-in-1 superfuzz/klon/delay/tremolo build.  The guy paid me a buttload to make it, but I was grumbling the whole time I was making it.  It didn't feel worth it in the end.

[Philippe]

"Value is what someone is willing to pay for it.  Not what you think its worth."
....unless you can find a sucker or someone who has money to burn.

This is a valuable insight, one that can take some a lifetime to learn or fully realize.

Reminds me of those folks who bring stuff to Antiques Roadshow on PBS. While many leave with mind-boggling monetary figures in their eyes, most would have to find that one unique individual/collector who actually wants that particular oddball item & is willing to pay in the area of the appraised price.

Which makes me wonder...while not 'oddball' items, I suspect many of those overpriced vintage Stratocasters & Martin D-28s will eventually decline in value & asking price once a majority of the babyboomers are in Woodstock Heaven (or Hell). Judging by the current pop-music tastes & concious historical reference points of the younger generations, these kinds of guitars will probably be assessed/viewed as just another guitar. Same goes for a lot of other things like convertible Mustangs, Rolexes, Fillmore/Winterland posters & the like.

So sell now  ...as a bird (aka cash) in the hand is probably far better than watching your offspring 'from afar' spray-painting your '57 Strat with a can of Rustoleum or using that Mustang for modern day street racing.

OR worst yet, selling them off cheaply to G. Gruhn III.

Not intended thread hijack...just a follow-up to modsquad's insightful comment.

[Philippe]

*edit/delete*

[connie_c]

I manage and co-own a small shop. In a situation like this I wouldn't pay upfront. Shops work on credit. I would figure out a retail price and charge the shop 40% less than that. I would suggest the retail price reflects boutique prices as this is what you are competing against but make sure they are at the lower end of this.

Put 3 or 4 pedals in each shop. I find having a range of a brand makes a huge difference from a sales perspective.5 unknown brand things sell way faster than 2. If you have only one pedal design to sell consider supplying a display case or some decent posters or whatever.

Make an agreement that in the first batch the shop takes the credit period is undetermined. If they sell one they pay you for it. After that they order one to replace everyone they sell. They then have 30 to 60 days to pay for it  (you can figure out the length of the credit period you can live with).

If you did this for a few shops you are taking decent outlay at the beginning. Maybe $1000 and lots of hours building. Maybe start with 2 shops in case they don't turn out as popular as you hoped

If you offered me this deal I would say yes. I'm in Ireland though and am not interested in case you ask.(No offense but if I was I would just do it myself, this is all hypothetical)

If you just offered me 60 days credit up front I would say no unless I was very sure of the demand.

If you offered me 60 days credit with the option to return I would say yes but that might be silly of you. I may take longer than 2 months to sell the 1st batch(I'd almost guarantee it will be).

Also consider warranty issues. In the EU a 2 year warranty is mandatory on this stuff. I would also need TAX numbers. Its called VAT over here. I might take a few off you without tax numbers if you were a friend /customer I trusted while you got your business off the ground but if I didnt know you and you didnt have a vat/tax number I wouldn't do business.

This may not a apply in the states.

Good luck.

[DougH]

Which makes me wonder...while not 'oddball' items, I suspect many of those overpriced vintage Stratocasters & Martin D-28s will eventually decline in value & asking price once a majority of the babyboomers are in Woodstock Heaven (or Hell). Judging by the current pop-music tastes & concious historical reference points of the younger generations, these kinds of guitars will probably be assessed/viewed as just another guitar. Same goes for a lot of other things like convertible Mustangs, Rolexes, Fillmore/Winterland posters & the like.

I suspect that expensive tube screamers will go the way of the dodo bird too, and probably in the not too distant future. The JRC4558 and TS9 vs. TS808 stuff has been adequately debunked for years now. New gen-u-wine TS808's and TS9's are plentiful and available at every guitar center and sam ash store across the country. And it won't be long before no one really gives a sh*t what SRV used to get his sound. Agonizing over Stevie's sound will be akin to further speculation on why Paul didn't wear shoes on the Abbey Road cover or what the setting was on Spock's phaser in episode 219... IOW, info suitable only to fetishists...

[B Tremblay]

I've only sold by word-of-mouth and at one local guitar show.  I usually triple my parts cost, then add an arbitrary number for labor and "overhead".  I'm not trying to actually make any money, just enough to make more pedals.  The pedals I've sold have been in the range of $75 to $125.  More than that and I would feel a bit guilty.  But what works for my situation and conscience may not work for you!

[Paul Marossy]

I usually triple my parts cost, then add an arbitrary number for labor and "overhead".  

For the pedals that I build in which I have to buy all the parts myself, based on what I get paid per pedal, that is pretty close to how the numbers work out.

[petemoore]

  And the Madsquid nails it ?
 Makes
 Aboslutely
 No
 Sense
 Whatsoever
 ...I think you could have also fit "at all'' in there, it would have added the extra punch.
 Apology accepted sir .
 

[modsquad]

Maybe its me, but I don't get half your posts anyway.  My brain sees them as stream of conciousness postings.  But again its me.  But no apology was put forth.

[Skruffyhound]

What's wrong with steam of consciousness postings. I enjoy Pete's posts. Some of the late night posts can be a bit tricky, but what the hell, I like some diversity in the forum, and Pete's good at brainstorming.

[B Tremblay]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with stream of consciousness posts.  Just don't cross the streams.  It would be bad.

[glops]

Saying it makes no sense at all seems like a good point.   I think it really depends on what you are selling and to who.

I have only built a handful of pedals and, in the beginning, the idea of creating your own circuit and making cool boxes and selling them seemed like an awesome way to make some extra cash.  Especially, seeing the price of some of the bigger boutique companies sell their stuff for... But after learning more and reading this forum everyday for the past year and a half, I realize that I have a lot to learn in order to come up with an "original" design and I have just decided to learn and build things for myself. 

Recently, I posted a pic of graphics for a Companion Fuzz to a friend's facebook page.  He's a guitarist and really wants one bad.  Another friend saw the pic and wants  a pedal, too.  So, I think I am going to make these guys a couple of pedals and sell them for really cheap.  These guys are in Austin and I have known them for over 15 years.  If they like what they get, then most likely the word will get out and more friends will want pedals.   I used to live in Austin and probably have a hundred friends there that are musicians, probably half guitarists.  Whenever I tell one of them that I started making pedals they think it's the coolest thing in the world.

I never would want to do this as a business because it seems like the fun would get zapped out of it.  There is one guy out of Brooklyn that does OhNoHo pedals.  I think what he has going is pretty clever.  He does small batches of pedals and each batch has its own unique artwork.  They all seem to sell out.  I even bought one and although I knew it was something that I could probably make, I just couldn't resist because the artwork was really cool and I like the idea of supporting a small builder.

Best,
Richard

[DougH]

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Hmmm... Made perfect sense to me.

[Paul Marossy]

Maybe its me, but I don't get half your posts anyway.  My brain sees them as stream of conciousness postings.  But again its me.  But no apology was put forth.

Maybe you need to be very right-brained to get those posts? It's pretty hit and miss for me, and I think I'm pretty much 50-50 left/right brained.

[jkokura]

I'm surprised at how far this conversation has ended up travelling!

Another question to throw back in the ring - what about selling pedals here? Or what do you think about selling the one offs that we build that we don't want anymore? Obviously we can't mark up much here at all, or can we? Most of us would just say, "I can build it for less than that," but should we take something for our effort or not?

Jacob