Switchcraft Jacks - Open vs Enclosed?

[G. Hoffman]

I think a distinction needs to be made between a Switchcraft #11 open jack (which has been made exactly the same since the 1950's at least, and I seriously doubt anyone has ever seen one which has been seriously damaged) and the cheap Asian knock offs that I tell my customers to replace on sight, as they are such cheap junk.  THOSE I've seen damaged in every imaginable way.  A #11, or a #12A or B, etc - never.  A #11 is a 50+ year part.  The cheap knock offs are a ≤50 day part.

The bad open frames I had were actually stamped Switchcraft but this was also in a short period of time and haven't seen any failed opens since that time frame. I do have a theory that Switchcraft tried to make jacks cheaper overseas but the product was such crap that they stopped and went to something else but the overseas manufacture continued making jacks without the Switchcraft stamp. Similar to the 3PDT fiasco. I think I may stick a few open frames on my next order to investigate.

I agree, the asian knock offs are junk. Like I said beware of cheap "feeling" parts. Sometimes thats hard to do when ordering online.

Andrew

Like most manufacturers, Switchcraft makes products to suit many different markets. 

How do you guys feel about the neutrik open jacks? I've used them for a couple of builds and I've found them reliable, although tight, but I'm getting ready for a parts order and I'd like to know if there is a large advantage to Switchcrafts.

I've never been wild about their 1/4" jacks.  There is certainly nothing wrong with them, but they are more complicated than the Switchcraft jacks, and complicated design is usually less reliable than simple design.  Its kind of like the AA motto - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  The #11 and #12 jacks ain't broke.


Gabriel

[Speeddemon]

I got both the REAN/Neutrik ones (which are apparently labeled "China" on the inner sleeve-edge) and the Switchcraft open AND closed ones.
I can tell them apart easily now; the REANs look bulkier (thicker metal) and the insulation-disks are more yellow-white. The Switchcrafts are more of an orange/beige kind.

I also have really bad experiences with those cheap (Taiwan?) jacks. I have only a handful around, that I *only* use for prototyping something quick.
I wish online stores would stop selling these altogether. Even for total beginners on their first project, who are on a budget. Go with an NSC enclosure instead of a Hammond and the $2 you save, you can put towards decent jacks.

[amptramp]

My only concern with open jacks is that if you run wiring past them, the wire insulation could be worn through by the movement of the jack parts when you plug and unplug items.  If you could ensure there was no wiring in the vicinity, the open jacks would be better because they can be inspected for wear or damage and bent back into shape if necessary.

[MikeH]

I'm the opposite- I've never had a problem with an open switchcraft jack (well, never with one that was less than 40 years old), but I've had to replace the open kind on more than one occasion.  Sometimes they just get loose/worn out and the contacts become dodgy.

Really ? Interesting. Are these Switchcraft models ? I have had to replace other closed but none of the Switchcraft ones. I find the Switchcraft ones I can clean and re-tighten the contacts if needed.

Not sure if they are switchcraft or not.  But they were in my vs H20, 2 boss pedals, and a handful in a peavy pa head.

[The Tone God]

Like most manufacturers, Switchcraft makes products to suit many different markets.

I'll say. I have a Switchcraft open frame here on my desk that I picked up in the surplus area of a store. The inner diameter of the bushing is 5.35mm instead of 6.35 for standard plugs. Now I know why they were in the surplus area.

Not sure if they are switchcraft or not.  But they were in my vs H20, 2 boss pedals, and a handful in a peavy pa head.

I'm interested in how they were failing. Was there a common point of failure or did they fail in different ways ? Can you infer if the damage was caused while the plug was inserted or if through force applied to the unit during transport/usage ?

Andrew

[G. Hoffman]

Like most manufacturers, Switchcraft makes products to suit many different markets.

I'll say. I have a Switchcraft open frame here on my desk that I picked up in the surplus area of a store. The inner diameter of the bushing is 5.35mm instead of 6.35 for standard plugs. Now I know why they were in the surplus area.

That's a TT jack.  They look a lot like 1/4" jacks, but you can get a lot more of them on a panel.  They are popular for patchbays and the like.  If you ever look at a picture of a studio with a high end console (SSL, Neve, ATI, etc.), they have big patch bays at one end or the other which are all TT jacks.  It can be very helpful to be able to get 64 plugs in a rack space instead of 48.


Gabriel

[The Tone God]

That's a TT jack.  They look a lot like 1/4" jacks, but you can get a lot more of them on a panel.  They are popular for patchbays and the like.  If you ever look at a picture of a studio with a high end console (SSL, Neve, ATI, etc.), they have big patch bays at one end or the other which are all TT jacks.  It can be very helpful to be able to get 64 plugs in a rack space instead of 48.

Yeah its the S12A version. It was one of those too good to be true deals. My fault for not checking. The good thing is I didn't buy too many because they were open frames and I prefer closed. Oh well. I'll keep in stock in case anything comes in the shop that needs it.

Andrew

[Paul Marossy]

I've never been wild about their 1/4" jacks.  There is certainly nothing wrong with them, but they are more complicated than the Switchcraft jacks, and complicated design is usually less reliable than simple design.  Its kind of like the AA motto - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  The #11 and #12 jacks ain't broke.

What?! How so? The Neutrik open frames look just like the Switchcraft ones. How are they "more complicated"?

[Brymus]

Just a quick tip.
I go to ACE and buy the nylon shoulder washers and plastic/rubber flat washers to completly isolate my switchcraft jacks.
I forget the sizes, but just take a jack with you and look in the shoulder washer bins.
It cost about 17 cents for the two washers together and this will prevent ground loops if you use it on the output jack.
I use it on all the jacks in my amp builds.
Before finding this I would use the Neutrik plastic jacks that look like copies of the Cliff jacks but only cost about .65 cents each instead of 2-3 $ each.
Also I bought some long johnny jacks inspite of reading some bad reviews and they are probably the best quality for the price I have bought yet. http://www.effectsconnection.com/oscommerce/index.php?cPath=2_64
They are copies of the switchcraft enclosed jacks are dont seem cheap to me at all.

[Steve Mavronis]

Just a quick tip. I go to ACE and buy the nylon shoulder washers and plastic/rubber flat washers to completly isolate my switchcraft jacks. I forget the sizes, but just take a jack with you and look in the shoulder washer bins. It cost about 17 cents for the two washers together and this will prevent ground loops if you use it on the output jack.

So you use one on each side of the enclosure wall only on the output jack?

[blooze_man]

Brand name aside, I always prefer open style jacks.

[Brymus]

Just a quick tip. I go to ACE and buy the nylon shoulder washers and plastic/rubber flat washers to completly isolate my switchcraft jacks. I forget the sizes, but just take a jack with you and look in the shoulder washer bins. It cost about 17 cents for the two washers together and this will prevent ground loops if you use it on the output jack.

So you use one on each side of the enclosure wall only on the output jack?

Yeah the shoulder washer goes on the jack/inside wall the flat washer goes on the threads/outside wall.
And I do the output jack,so the output is floating.This way the input jack is grounded to the enclosure and the enclosure is acting as a shield too.
You could do both jacks and the run a wire to the enclosure to get it shielded if you want both jacks to match,which is what I used to do.
I was using drawer pulls as nerf bars and would just run a wire with a connector to the screw holding the drawer pull on.
Right hand side of pic>http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=41903&g2_serialNumber=2
Shoulder washers are white >http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=41907&g2_serialNumber=2
The flat rubber/iso washer is black>http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=41905&g2_serialNumber=2

[G. Hoffman]

I've never been wild about their 1/4" jacks.  There is certainly nothing wrong with them, but they are more complicated than the Switchcraft jacks, and complicated design is usually less reliable than simple design.  Its kind of like the AA motto - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  The #11 and #12 jacks ain't broke.

What?! How so? The Neutrik open frames look just like the Switchcraft ones. How are they "more complicated"?

I guess I haven't seen those.  The 1/4 jacks of theirs I've seen are the locking ones, which I don't like. 


Gabriel

[Processaurus]

Are there any other US or european jacks than switchcraft (the factory's in chicago), and some neutrik (european)?  I suspect it comes down to quality steel.  A rose by any other name would be just as gig-worthy.

[analogmike]

The bad open frames I had were actually stamped Switchcraft but this was also in a short period of time and haven't seen any failed opens since that time frame. I do have a theory that Switchcraft tried to make jacks cheaper overseas but the product was such crap that they stopped and went to something else but the overseas manufacture continued making jacks without the Switchcraft stamp. Similar to the 3PDT fiasco. I think I may stick a few open frames on my next order to investigate.

I agree, the asian knock offs are junk. Like I said beware of cheap "feeling" parts. Sometimes thats hard to do when ordering online.

Andrew

The switchcraft #11 type jacks have been made in Mexico as long as I remember, at least 15 years. They are junk compared to the old ones, the tension goes away pretty quickly. I find the plastic RE'AN jacks work the best for most pedals, the only problem I have is when someone loses a nut.

[Processaurus]

The bad open frames I had were actually stamped Switchcraft but this was also in a short period of time and haven't seen any failed opens since that time frame. I do have a theory that Switchcraft tried to make jacks cheaper overseas but the product was such crap that they stopped and went to something else but the overseas manufacture continued making jacks without the Switchcraft stamp. Similar to the 3PDT fiasco. I think I may stick a few open frames on my next order to investigate.

I agree, the asian knock offs are junk. Like I said beware of cheap "feeling" parts. Sometimes thats hard to do when ordering online.

Andrew

The switchcraft #11 type jacks have been made in Mexico as long as I remember, at least 15 years. They are junk compared to the old ones, the tension goes away pretty quickly. I find the plastic RE'AN jacks work the best for most pedals, the only problem I have is when someone loses a nut.

Are they?  I was interested a while back and on their website they say:

In the 185,000 square foot Chicago facility, Switchcraft manufactures electronic and electromechanical components including:

    * Jacks
    * Connectors
    * Jack Panels
    * Power Cords
    * Switches
    * Plugs
    * Jackfields
    * Patch Cords
    * EAC Power Receptacles
    * Molded Cable Assemblies

No mention of Mexico...

[Brymus]

Just a quick tip.
I go to ACE and buy the nylon shoulder washers and plastic/rubber flat washers to completly isolate my switchcraft jacks.
I forget the sizes, but just take a jack with you and look in the shoulder washer bins.
It cost about 17 cents for the two washers together and this will prevent ground loops if you use it on the output jack.
I use it on all the jacks in my amp builds.
Before finding this I would use the Neutrik plastic jacks that look like copies of the Cliff jacks but only cost about .65 cents each instead of 2-3 $ each.
Also I bought some long johnny jacks inspite of reading some bad reviews and they are probably the best quality for the price I have bought yet. http://www.effectsconnection.com/oscommerce/index.php?cPath=2_64
They are copies of the switchcraft enclosed jacks are dont seem cheap to me at all.

The long johnny jacks are quite better than the tiawan/ RS ones,and they are almost identicle to the enclosed Switchcraft ones.

[Paul Marossy]

The switchcraft #11 type jacks have been made in Mexico as long as I remember, at least 15 years. They are junk compared to the old ones, the tension goes away pretty quickly. I find the plastic RE'AN jacks work the best for most pedals, the only problem I have is when someone loses a nut.

Depends on what you want to compare them to. They are WAY better than some cheapo open frame jacks you can get. 

[G. Hoffman]

I suspect it comes down to quality steel.

Not steel - you can't solder to steel - but quality metal is PART of the issue.  Also, the thickness of the metal.  But most important is the shape of the contact.  Having it bent over into a U shape spreads the pressure across a larger section of the contact, which means you have fewer problems with metal fatigue.  Compare that to the cheap Asian ones where all the pressure is put right on the over-90-degree bend at the base of a much lighter gauge contact, and it is not hard to understand why they fail.  The Switchcraft enclosed jacks use better material, but the same basic geometry of the contact as the cheap Asian jacks - hence my preference. 


Gabriel

[Processaurus]

I suspect it comes down to quality steel.

Not steel - you can't solder to steel - but quality metal is PART of the issue.  Also, the thickness of the metal.  But most important is the shape of the contact.  Having it bent over into a U shape spreads the pressure across a larger section of the contact, which means you have fewer problems with metal fatigue.  Compare that to the cheap Asian ones where all the pressure is put right on the over-90-degree bend at the base of a much lighter gauge contact, and it is not hard to understand why they fail.  The Switchcraft enclosed jacks use better material, but the same basic geometry of the contact as the cheap Asian jacks - hence my preference. 


Gabriel

You're right, it is some type of special copper alloy:
http://switchcraft.com/products/jack-85.html
The open-frame Asian jacks I've come across are so sub-standard, like in the big electro-harmonix pedals, and import guitars.  The easiest difference to spot contacts are always twice as thin as the switchcraft.  I haven't had a problem with the enclosed switchcrafts, but agree, they do feel cheap.  The switchcraft open frames are the only jacks I've used that give the right confident ka-chunk when you plug in, because of the nice thick contacts (haven't tried the NYS229, though).  Interesting side note, though, the switchcraft #11 is rated for 10,000 insertions, the neutrik NYS229 (their equivalent open frame), only 1,000.

I'm kind of over all the crappy jacks you see in modern commercial gear, and don't think DIYers should respect those kind of cost/timesaving decisions enough to imitate them, when the result is building an Achilles heel.  For as much work and thought goes into a handmade pedal, maybe an extra $2.50 for a lifetime of worry free operation is a steal...