Building the Echo Base PCB

[slacker]

I've wired the cancel switch in to the 3pdt switch, basically to just turn the LED on and off when I switch back and forth from bypass to on (and of course to turn the board on when not bypassed).

Sorry, just to make sure I understand correctly, have you done A or B?
A: Kept the original bypass/cancel switch and added a separate true bypass switch.
B: Removed the original bypass switch so there is just the true bypass switch.

Why wouldn't the tails switch work when the pedal is on with true bypass?

If you've done A then you can still have tails if you set it to "On" using the true bypass and then use the original switch to cancel the delays.
If you've done B then the tails switch can't do anything, because when it's bypassed the pedal's input and output aren't connected to anything, so there's no way you can hear the tails. Some people have tried to do "true bypass" by leaving the output connected to get the tails, this doesn't work and will give massive tone sucking. That's why I asked how you'd true bypassed it.

It honestly sounds to me like the pedal is just a major volume/tone sucker.  

It's not, the dry signal path is just a couple of buffers, there's nowhere for there to be any volume loss, you must have a problem somewhere. The dry path is really simple so it should be easy to debug using an audio probe, if you haven't got one there's instructions how to make one here http://www.diystompboxes.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debugging.

With the pedal on, probe the following points on the board, this is looking at the component side of the board and the opamp is the one under the Level control.
"IN" pad on the board
Pins 1, 2 and 3 of the opamp
The left hand side of the 10k resistor next to pin 3 of the opamp, this is the one you remove to do the clean kill mod.
Pin 7 of the opamp
Both sides of the 220n capacitor above the opamp
The "OUT" pad on the board

Somewhere along that path you'll find where it's dropping the volume. Let us know where and we can figure out how to fix it

[deeptubez]

Duuuuhhh!!  I don't know why I didn't think to audio probe it earlier......bad op amp!    Pedal works and sounds great now...luckily I had an extra.  Major loss of signal once I tested it and once I swapped it, problem solved.  Thanks for the input slacker!   And to answer your question, the cancel switch is wired to the switch so that when the pedal is on, the cancel switch pads are connected, and when the pedal is bypassed, the pads are disconnected (the main reason I did this was to use the pcb pads for the LED and it's the only way I could get the damn thing to shut off!  )  The volume is perfect across the board and anyone wanting to make this true bypass, I would recommend it.  Thanks for the help!

[deeptubez]

Just jammed on it for the passed hour or so, and I'm really diggin' it   
Here's a couple pics

[Barcode80]

Duuuuhhh!!  I don't know why I didn't think to audio probe it earlier......bad op amp!    Pedal works and sounds great now...luckily I had an extra.  Major loss of signal once I tested it and once I swapped it, problem solved.  Thanks for the input slacker!   And to answer your question, the cancel switch is wired to the switch so that when the pedal is on, the cancel switch pads are connected, and when the pedal is bypassed, the pads are disconnected (the main reason I did this was to use the pcb pads for the LED and it's the only way I could get the damn thing to shut off!  )  The volume is perfect across the board and anyone wanting to make this true bypass, I would recommend it.  Thanks for the help!

FYI, that is not true bypass. That's why everyone was confused. True bypass means the entire effect would be out of the chain when switched off, not just the canceling of the wet signal.

[deeptubez]

You don't understand:  I'm using the cancel switch on the board AND true bypassing it at the same time (using a 3pdt switch)  Trust me, it's wired for true bypass...it's how I wire all my pedals.  The only reason I don't just hardwire the cancel switch together is because I want the LED to shut off....I preferred wiring the LED to the board and just using the cancel switch on the board to shut the LED off when true bypassed.  Kinda confusing, I know, but look at the switch in the picture....the 1st stomp switch to the left is a SPST that controls the LFO on/off, the next is my 3pdt switch and you can see exactly how I have it wired and you can see it is true bypass....when pressed the signal passes straight from the input through the switch and straight to the output.

[slacker]

Cool, glad you fixed it.

[Seven64]

can i ignore the bypass spot on the pcb and wire the in/out to the 3pdt like a normal pcb?  if i understand this correctly this would disable tails and the need for the tails switch?

i need to get my enclosure done being drilled, as i have 13 pedals on my board and not a single delay!

[slacker]

Yes, if you completely leave out the tails switch that makes the effect permanently on, then you can just use normal true bypass wiring. If you want you can wire the bypass pads to the 3PDT this lets you use the on board LED as your indicator or you can just add your own LED.

[Seven64]

ok, double checking to make sure i understand this.  i can wire the 3pdt to the bypass switch, wire the jacks to the in/out, and have a non true bypass pedal that will allow me to use the onboard led pads for the led indicator or i can wire the 3pdt to the in/out pads, and have to provide my own led indicator wiring.

i have 2 jeft buffers in my pedal chain so im not too concerned with true bypass/buffered bypass, but i am not interested in the tails so trying to figure out what the easiest way i can wire it up without them is.  is the non true bypass the reason some people talk about oscillation in their effect chain?  most of my pedals behave weirdly in my chain when i have my compressor on, so i am trying to make this as hassle free as i can.

[deeptubez]

Here's what you want to do:

                      3pdt:

                    |1|2|3|
                    |4|5|6|
                    |7|8|9|
                   

Connect the following:

1 to cancel switch on PCB
4 to cancel switch on PCB
2 to input jack tip
2 jumpered to 9
5 to IN on PCB
3 to OUT on PCB
6 to output jack tip
7 & 8 are unused

Wiring it this way will give you true bypass AND let you wire the LED into the spot on the PCB.  By wiring the cancel pads on the PCB to the 3pdt, the board will also be in cancel mode when true bypassed....this really shouldn't matter EXCEPT if you want to use the PCB pads for your LED....basically you're just using the cancel pads to turn your LED on and off when bypassed.  Get it? 

[Seven64]

yea.  thats sick.  im not worried about the tails, as i don't see when i will ever use it.  i want a delay and a phaser to play with!!!!

[Seven64]

got it wired up, but there is no effect when it is engaged   the led comes on and changes speed with the speed knob, but there is no delay at all.  is it because i left the tails pads open?

[Seven64]

nevermind.  put a jumper in the tails pads and now it sounds great!  thanks guys!

[ugly_guitar_guy]

If I don't want to switch the tails on and off and I just want them to always be on, which holes would I jumper?

Thanks!

[slacker]

Middle and left I think.

[add4]

Hello,
just finished the build today.
i works perfectly when you have all the opamps put on their good direction... (duh.. 1 hour on that :p)
I still have a problem with the signal path : i loose a bit of volume and lots of treble .. i'll have to check that up as i have built a small booster like that and couldn't hear it when bypassed or not.

I also would like to point out that i made the dub madness mod explained in the doc, and it wasn't clear to me that you have to put the resistor on the switch AND the actual 20k resistor into the pads.. i left the 20k resistor empty and i didn't had any delay until i turned the mod on.
For me it wasn't clear on the doc, so i'm just saying it in case other people misunderstand it too
anyway .. i'm going to find what sucks tone and it's going to sound great!
thanks for the nice board taylor

[g-sus]

If I don't want to switch the tails on and off and I just want them to always be on, which holes would I jumper?

Thanks!

Depends which side of the board you're looking Mine works like this (middle and right lug connected):



-Jaska-

[ugly_guitar_guy]

Depends which side of the board you're looking Mine works like this (middle and right lug connected):



-Jaska-

Figures, I assumed I was talking about the front face view of the board like yours, so I jumpered it the other way. Have to fix that tonight. Thanks for the pic and clarification! Should have my case done being painted tonight. I put my board in this way because I didn't want to have the knobs be "backwards." Doing the dub mod with led indication for the 2nd footswitch, and a clean kill toggle (upper left hand side). After doing so many 1590A pedals lately this thing was great to work with so much room!

[garcho]

I just gotta say, the 'tails' function is brilliant, and is the main selling point for Echo Base, IMHO. I'm not trying to tell anyone who leaves this function out that their opinion is uninformed or wrong, I just wanted to give Slacker some props for that part of the circuit in particular, and encourage people who haven't built an Echo Base yet to consider leaving 'tails' in and learning how and when to use it. I've been a huge dub fan for half my life and went to school for audio engineering, so something like 'tails' is right up my alley; maybe I'm just biased. I also like that the circuit incorporates CMOS; lots of cool things for effects pedals lurking in that universe. Has anyone Arduinoed the Echo Base yet?

[ugly_guitar_guy]

I just gotta say, the 'tails' function is brilliant, and is the main selling point for Echo Base, IMHO. I'm not trying to tell anyone who leaves this function out that their opinion is uninformed or wrong, I just wanted to give Taylor some props for that part of the circuit in particular, and encourage people who haven't built an Echo Base yet to consider leaving 'tails' in and learning how and when to use it. I've been a huge dub fan for half my life and went to school for audio engineering, so something like 'tails' is right up my alley; maybe I'm just biased. I also like that the circuit incorporates CMOS; lots of cool things for effects pedals lurking in that universe. Has anyone Arduinoed the Echo Base yet?

From a guitar player's standpoint, I only prefer tails-on effects. I like to be able to change sounds and have the end of the last sound trailing off. I don't like a hard cut to a delay at all, so it's perfect for me to leave it on. For any non-tailed delays I'll still have a DD-3 on my pedalboard as well. I don't really even foresee much need for the Dub switch, but I figured what the heck and put it there anyways, cause you never know... But I do know about tails.