First etch FAIL! lol

[philbinator1]

   Yeah didn't go so good, ha!  What happened was, I put my iron on linen (it's very close to max) and applied the the freshly
steel wooled and acetoned copperclad, and the iron melted the back on my Dick Smith matte photo paper.  So, the iron was
loathe to give up the paper and the bsiab2 peeled straight off, the dr boogey stayed on.  so i just kept the iron on the boogey
for 2 minutes then removed and residue-sticky paper from iron and copper clad...and the results were humourous!  the bsiab
was very faint missing big areas, the dr.boogey a bit darker with bits from the photo paper sticking to it.  but still missing bits.

I'm thinking I've A: had the iron too hot, B: used the wrong paper, or C: used the wrong side of the paper (although I'm sure
I used the shinier side to print the images on).  What do you guys think?   

[linny1982]

Yeah dude way to hot lol. you gotta have it on silk (lowest) or just above. You can also put a bit of plain paper between the iron and the transfer if you're not sure. It'll take a bit longer but the plastic wont melt to the iron.

[philbinator1]

Yeah it's funny the tuts I've read say linen...maybe we make extraturbohot irons in nz.  I mean china.   
I'll try it on a lower setting with the paper in between, thanks man!

[StereoKills]

the iron melted the back on my Dick Smith matte photo paper.
I'm thinking I've  B: used the wrong paper

If using photo paper, everything I've heard points to the glossier the better.

[Mark Hammer]

Some budget photo paper is effectively "glossy" on both sides.  Keep in mind that if it is for either actual photo processing or for inkjet printing, there is no assumption that the paper will be exposed to high temperatures.  In that respect, photo-paper for laser printers is a safer bet.  I often wondered how it is that folks who use glossy magazine paper (which is glossy both sides) don't report the paper sticking to the iron.  But then, I guess there is a difference in requisite emulsion thickness when the paper has NO IMAGE on it and is designed to snag every nuance of whatever you are going to print, compared with glossy paper that already HAS an image on it and needs no further capacity.

I think I'm going to try some magazine paper next time out.

[JKowalski]

I like to use a thin dishtowel or some other scrap fabric between the iron and the piece, it lets the iron slide nicely and still transfers heat well, sometimes when you use paper the iron will catch or tear.

Also, I use the highest heat setting, it seems to work best.

[differo]

always highest setting.. but I guess the paper is important, never used magazine paper..

[FisTheGoon]

always highest setting.. but I guess the paper is important, never used magazine paper..

So far been using magazine paper and successful.I ironed around 5-10min at wool setting with a t-shirt on top of the paper.

[philbinator1]

the low setting didn't 'feel' right so i kept it pretty much where it was, just put some standard copy paper
in between and the paper stuck to the photo paper...which is fine i think.  just going to go rub the lot off now
after soaking.  Fingers crossed...  

EDIT - forgot to say, applied heat for 3 1/2 minutes.

EDIT 2 - Hmm.  Doesn't look good.  Part of the bsiab is lifting up, to reveal a very faint transfer underneath.  Maybe i'll
try this magazine paper you guys are always talking about?  Do you use the thicker-paged stuff, or just regular thin?
Does it matter if it's got print/diff. colours on it or not?

[FisTheGoon]

Do you use the thicker-paged stuff, or just regular thin?
Does it matter if it's got print/diff. colours on it or not?

I use FHM magazine.No issue with color/print.I think any magazine will work.

[Mark Hammer]

One of the major challenges that toner transfer users report is "How do you know when the pattern is successfully transferred?".

Unfortunately, nothing changes colour, or gives any other blatantly obvious clues that the transfer is now 100% complete.  Actual commercial PnP Blue sheets, being thin acetates that become slightly more pliable with heat, have the advantage in that the toner layer is pretty thick, and the acetate sheet droops at the edges of the pattern, providing a sort of "bas relief".  Photo paper, being much thicker, and less affected by heat, does not provide such a visible indicator.  Magazine paper, although thinner than photo paper, and more in the direction of PnP, has the disadvantage that there is content on both sides, provide much visual distraction and noise that would make it difficult to see the same sort of "droopage" around the pattern that one sees with the shiny monochrome PnP.

So, I guess that begs the question "How do you folks who work with magazine paper know when the pattern is completely transferred?".  Or do you just get lucky each and every time?  Or do you end up doing a lot more touching up of transfers than you let on?

[philbinator1]

Dude, if there one thing I dislike, it's Droopage!     (ba-dum TSSH)

Seriously though.  I looked at it again and it's not looking good, so tomorrow I'll re-buff it and try with
mag paper.  I've learned in DIY that perserverance is my friend.   It's gotta work sometime, right?! 

[therecordingart]

So, I guess that begs the question "How do you folks who work with magazine paper know when the pattern is completely transferred?".  Or do you just get lucky each and every time?  Or do you end up doing a lot more touching up of transfers than you let on?

I use a laminator and just pass the PCB through a few times. I've never had a single successful transfer using an iron.

[FisTheGoon]

I think i was lucky.But i do encounter where the toner were peeled off when removing the paper after soaking in water of detergent  (should in water only from my experience) or the toner did not want to transfer after ironing.Basically after trial n error,so i decide to iron around 5-10min with a paper or cloth on top of the paper with wool setting.So far so good for me.Hope it helps.Like what therecordingart say if you can get a laminator it will be much easier.

[Fender3D]

So, I guess that begs the question "How do you folks who work with magazine paper know when the pattern is completely transferred?".  Or do you just get lucky each and every time?  Or do you end up doing a lot more touching up of transfers than you let on?

I use the last Asus' catalogue pages to print on.
My iron control is stuck to max...
so I press the iron on paper just to keep it in position, then "iron" it keeping moving gently (so the paper won't move off).
After a while you can notice the PCB tracks in somewhat relief on paper.
You'll wish to insist on center of PCB if it's wide enough.
At this point I'll toss it into water, and peel the paper off with fingers...

[Brymus]

I just copied this from my post in the thread on page 2
I suppose I left out BE SURE TO USE A PIECE OF FRESH UNFOLDED/UNWRINKLED PAPER BETWEEN YOUR IRON AND TRANSFER  
I haven't used photo paper yet.
I use glossy paper from a magazine,usually Playboy...
Then at max heat I iron for 100 seconds >
I use a piece of fresh clean paper between the iron and transfer/no folds or wrinkles !
I only use magazine/gloss paper with text or blank/white for the transfer,no color it tends to bleed through the gloss and stick to the copper...
I dont heat the copper so my transfer wont stick and I can center it better.
from 0-20/30 seconds I dont move the iron I just leave it with minimal pressure this is to seat the tranfer so it doesnt move.
from 30-90 seconds I move the iron around with a small/medium amount of pressure just a little more than the weight of the iron.
from 90-100 seconds I make sure I get the edges good applying more pressure and work around all the edges a couple of times.
If its a larger board maybe go a little longer...
If the copper is changing color or the transfer is distorting use less time/heat/pressure
Then I soak in warmish water for 30 minutes to an hour or more and it rubs right off leaving all the toner in place.
It took a little trial and error but doing it this way tends to work every time for me now.
Hope that helps,Bryan

I count while I do it 100 seconds(1000 -1,  1000-2) isnt that long,and it works everytime for me now ,no touching up needed since I started doing it this way.
I was getting color bleeding through so I only use text areas now,YMMV
Also I set my printer as such
Toner Save=OFF
Fine Edge=ON
All text black=ON
Quality=Best
Dark Level=Max
Scaling=None
Darken Text=ON
Also I use Tarnex after scrubbing with a fine Scotchbrite (for between coats of paint) this cleans deep into the scratches,you can see the copper shine after the Tarnex (any acid based cleanser,bar maids helper,ect )
Then before I iron I use alcohol to make sure I didnt accidently leave any oil from my fingers on the board,and that all the cleaners are removed.
I can tell as soon as I run the board under water if the transfer stuck because of the way it will bleed through the paper when it has.
Also If I am not happy,like all the attempts that led to my above method=I simply clean the board and start over
If your copper is turning color you are ironing too long
Using fresh clean printer paper between the transfer medium and iron IS MANDATORY it allows the iron to slide easier and keeps whatever your using from sticking to the iron.
Sometimes my magazine paper will stick to the slide sheet slightly,and almost always slightly sticks to the paper I use to print with/the one underneath/that its taped on top of/for running through the printer

And I have found that proper ironing time is KEY to getting crisp traces
I sometimes go over 100 seconds,you will get a feel for it after several tries
Just make sure to go around the outside edges with the iron a couple of times before you finish.

[ralley]

I'm thinking I've A: had the iron too hot, B: used the wrong paper, or C: used the wrong side of the paper (although I'm sure
I used the shinier side to print the images on).  What do you guys think?   

Phil - after a few years using photo paper I ran out and had to replace mine, seems HP changed their formulation because it no longer worked for me.  I spent a small fortune trying different brands before giving up and using magazine paper.  It works much better for me than photo paper ever did.  NZ New Idea works well - finally a use for it!

Also like a couple of the others have said, a sheet of plain paper between the iron and the magazine paper to stop it sticking.  I also use my iron on maximum heat.

Rob.

[philbinator1]

Hey thanks for all your input guys!  I have some magazines laying around that are glossy, I'll try it today and report back.
Funny, with some touching up the gausmarkov boogey will be ok I think, but the traces on the GGG bsiab2 are pretty
thin so it's a lost cause.  Might try the Gausmarkov Bsiab2.  I'll let you all know the results.   

[Brymus]

Unless its just a couple of little (I mean really small) spots that you need to touch with the marker/whatever you use,you are better off acetoning the toner off,rescotch-brighting and doing it again until the  traces are right.
Besides this will give you practice with doing the print/ iron/remove-the-paper part without wasting your copper-clad and etchant solution.
It only took me a little more than a dozen tries with glossy magazine paper to get to where my results were consistant each time.
Its alot easier with the PNP blue and my first boards came out OK off the get go,but man that stuff is expensive so I decided to save it for more demanding boards with high/thin/trace counts.
If I could do it all over, I would invest in UV process,that will have to wait a year at least for me.
I was a little daunted by etching,let alone doing the home UV stuff with out buying pre-senstized boards/making your own UV sensitive boards.
Let us know what finally works for you Phil 

[solderman]

One way to solve this is to use the fotoresist method instead.

Perfect result all the time
Way higher resolution possible
Faster and easyer