laptop recording, to DI or not to DI

[euronymous0001]

hi everyone!

im planning to record some stuff on a laptop. i just finished assembling
my redbox mkII, and i've read some posts here that they just used cab sims
directly to their sound cards.

my question is: if i assemble a cab sim (planning to do a condor with SSS,
but will try mr joe davisson's simple cab sim first), do i need to feed it into
a DI box or is it ok just to feed it directly into the soundcard

thanks!

[sean k]

I can't see any reason to use a DI box as they are there only for isolation purposes. The problems I heard people encountering with laptop recording actually happens inside the laptop with the power supplies being somewhat noisy on the power rails with people resorting to battery when recording.

And why not just try amp sims as software plugins? But who am I to discourage someone wanting a reason to build. Go ahead and build but maybe just recording and adding if a need raises it head is the way to just start doing it!

[euronymous0001]

thanks sean.

i tried my DB with and without the DI box. the level is louder w/o
the DI box. im concern with the input of the sound card being
designed for mics and from what i know (which might be wrong)
is that i need a DI box to match the guitar output and the soundcard
input.

im just really looking for a decent recording quality.  i just want the
clips to be more or less realistic (i think this one might be subjective).
my friend and i woulb be exchanging some ideas and i think it woulb be
better if the quality would not be really horrible sounding 

btw, would be really helpful if you could maybe tell me how you record
to your computer (laptop or desktop) if ever you go direct.

thank you very much

[Boogdish]

If your cab sim has a buffer on the output, is putting out nice hot signal and it's not going through a 100ft cable to your laptop I don't think you'd benefit much from a DI unless you wanted to run the signal through a mic preamp you liked the sound of.

Really though, just use your ears.  Do whatever sounds best to you.

[wavley]

Personally I would use a di when recording straight into a laptop if not just for isolation purposes because wouldn't it suck if you had some DC sneaking out of your output and burning up that audio input that's built in to your motherboard?  Plus a little DC offset while not damaging anything can rob your recording of headroom.  The other reason I would do it is to stop any possible ground loops.

Of course this is just my opinion and you should use your ears and decide.;

[euronymous0001]

Personally I would use a di when recording straight into a laptop if not just for isolation purposes because wouldn't it suck if you had some DC sneaking out of your output and burning up that audio input that's built in to your motherboard?  Plus a little DC offset while not damaging anything can rob your recording of headroom.  The other reason I would do it is to stop any possible ground loops.

Of course this is just my opinion and you should use your ears and decide.;

so do i need to have a ground lift on the DI box then?

[Kinetic]

im just really looking for a decent recording quality.  i just want the
clips to be more or less realistic (i think this one might be subjective).
my friend and i woulb be exchanging some ideas and i think it woulb be
better if the quality would not be really horrible sounding 

Making assumptions based on your username, why on earth are you trying to achieve a good quality of recording? 

[ashcat_lt]

The main issue connecting a guitar to the laptop is one of impedance.  Whether it's a mic or line level input, the Input-Z is almost assuradly too low, and will cause a very large loss of high frequency response when connected directly to a passive pickup.  Any active circuit between the guitar and input alleviates this issue.  A passive DI could be used in lieu of this active box, but you don't need both.

There is a question also of the input voltage.  A passive guitar might be a little loud for a microphone input (which could cause some distortion), and probably a little quiet for a line-level input which is not good for noise reasons.  A passive DI would step down the voltage to something more acceptable for the mic input.  If you're using an active stage, and it has an output volume control, you'd ought to be able to use it to pad down to something usable. 

If (as mentioned above) you've got DC leaking out of your pedal, you need to fix it.  Also, as mentioned above, the weak link here is likely to be the laptop's power supply.  They are notoriously noisy, and battery operation is highly recommended.  Pretty sure that will alleviate all question of a ground loop as well. 

The other thing the DI does is to balance the signal for connection to a "professional" balanced mic pre.  The input on your computer is quite definitely not balanced.  You'd need a special adapter cable.

I wouldn't use a cab sim external to the computer if I intended to use plug-in amp modeling.  A simple buffer - even a non-true-bypass pedal in bypass mode - will work fine, but (like I said) an output volume control would be nice.

[euronymous0001]

Making assumptions based on your username, why on earth are you trying to achieve a good quality of recording?  

@ashcat_lt
thanks for the info, my computer has a TRS 1/8" type plug needed for the mic/line in (they serve dual purpose, need to choose
between mic and line in when you insert a 1/8" plug). my guess is that it is balanced, but i will look at the specs later, so maybe
for the meantime could do a guitar>DB>simple sim/condor+SSS>Di>soundcard setup while running on batteries. im currently
using just soundforgefor recording. i will into the plug ins for cab sims for soundforge. i really dont to damage the laptops soundcard
cause it would really be a PITA if that happens. once again thanks for the info

[Kinetic]

I was alluding to the traditionally poor recording quality of classic black metal, although I admit it was maybe a bit of a tenous link since the first couple of Mayhem releases sound fine to me.

[euronymous0001]

I was alluding to the traditionally poor recording quality of classic black metal, although I admit it was maybe a bit of a tenous link since the first couple of Mayhem releases sound fine to me.

i was just kidding  
you are right, most of the black metal bands have that kind of unpleasant recording sound quality
some actually contends that it should be done that way;D and im really steering away from that kind
kind of early black metal sound.  tho emperor's ihsan  sound on later albums are not in the same vein
from their earlier stuff

so whats your take on the setup for laptop/desktop recording 

[Kinetic]

Black metal is probably my favourite style of metal; De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas is one of my favourite albums.  Sometimes I really like that woeful sound, it sometimes adds something (like on Satanic Blood).

As for PC recording - if you're just doing this for sharing ideas, then I'd recommend the getting/using a POD.  Simple to record into a PC with, wide range of tone options.  Simple and very effective.

[sean k]

I just got a laptop recently and haven't started recording as I've just got an Ubuntu Studio DVD as OS and will drop the XP it came with but I got a Behringer UCA- 222 digital analog converter for 100 bucks NZ which'd be about 70 bucks US. Stereo ins/outs on RCA's, headphone 3.5 and a volume control all to USB. Stereo in/out is line level and I'll use mixer outs but a simple buffer should easily get enough oomph to drive the line level ins. The buffer driving a 10k/10k transformer would then allow no loop if you use the outs to a amp.

[euronymous0001]

my taste for metal swings  

i really dont like the hassle of setting up an amp but at the same time i want to
have decent recordings. i might as well try the DI box and the condor. im going to
use my DB for recording. ill try to post reports here with my results.

thanks everyone

[euronymous0001]

so do i need to have a ground lift on the DI box then?

i think it is not been answered yet,anyone?

also, forgot to ask if if it would be ok if i put i out the DI, cab sim and SSS
on a plastic enclosure with out shielding it? 

[wavley]

The main issue connecting a guitar to the laptop is one of impedance.  Whether it's a mic or line level input, the Input-Z is almost assuradly too low, and will cause a very large loss of high frequency response when connected directly to a passive pickup.  Any active circuit between the guitar and input alleviates this issue.  A passive DI could be used in lieu of this active box, but you don't need both.

Jeez, it's just become such a habit to use a di when going direct that I completely forgot to mention that this is the biggest reason to use a di

Personally I would just pop for a cheap usb interface like the Lexicon Alpha, it's $80 and has a mic and a High Z in and comes with cubase. 

I would recommend a di with a ground lift just in case you have a ground loop.  Surprisingly enough I'm quite fond of my Berhinger di that is really cheap, It's not as nice as my Anthony Demaria tube di, but it gets the job done pretty well.

[euronymous0001]

i assembled a red box mk2, shall be feeding this one with condor and SSS
and see if it is OK. hehehe. i would be experimenting with the 3. ill incorporate
ground lift i found on some layout (it has a resistor and cao, from the ground
on the xlr in the board parallel going to  ground). hope ill get what i want

[Plan B]

Is there any reason you can't mic a cab and also use a di box?  As someone else touched on earlier, don't rule something out just because it " isn't the right way to do it"

On the other issue, the first four tracks on Storm of the Light's Bane and The Cursed Realm of the Winterdemons never fail at rocking my face off.  Ever.

[wavley]

Is there any reason you can't mic a cab and also use a di box?  As someone else touched on earlier, don't rule something out just because it " isn't the right way to do it"

On the other issue, the first four tracks on Storm of the Light's Bane and The Cursed Realm of the Winterdemons never fail at rocking my face off.  Ever.

This is how I pretty much always record bass guitar.  Sometimes I even use the di in between the amp and cab, it tends to need less phase alignment than in front of the amp, but most of the time I just want the cleanest bass sound I can get.

That said, I've tried this approach several times with the guitar and usually using so little of the di track or muting it entirely that I don't even bother anymore.  I think that he may be wanting to di because of the making the neighbors angry with black metal factor, which is why I moved to the country so I wouldn't be bothering anybody but my wife with my loud space rock self.

[euronymous0001]

I think that he may be wanting to di because of the making the neighbors angry with black metal factor

actually even if strum an open E chord on an acoustic would be heard by my neighbor.
cant move to another country either
recording in low volumes is the only way to go