Fuzz Face Mod

[Quackzed]

yeah, with a 10k trimmer you would just remove one side of the top resistor and wire lug 1 of the trimmer to it then wire lugs 2+3 of the trimmer to the pad where the removed resistor end was. so its board---resistor---to trimmer lug 1  and lugs 2+3 to the empty pad.
i wouldn't change anything else, really, untill you dial it in with the trimmers and get it to around where you want it.
that cap 2a104k is a .1uf , the third number tells you how many zeroes to add,and the first 2 are the value, so 104=1-0 -0000 or 100,000pf  that is pico farads which is the same as saying 100nf or .1uf so a 104 is a .1uf
if later you wanted less bass or it sounded a little flabby, the 2.2uf cap on the bottom is the input cap, if you changed it's value to a smaller value like a .1uf it would cut bass going into the fuzz and give a tighter less bassy sound.
but i think you'll have plenty of room to find a sound you like without messing with that right yet...

[dstrats]

yeah, with a 10k trimmer you would just remove one side of the top resistor and wire lug 1 of the trimmer to it then wire lugs 2+3 of the trimmer to the pad where the removed resistor end was. so its board---resistor---to trimmer lug 1  and lugs 2+3 to the empty pad.

Hey "Quackzed",

OK, so I got my hands on a 10K trim pot. It has three "legs". So, let me get this straight, on the board, I cut one of the leads from the 8.2K resistor but leave the other side alone (?). Then solder one of the legs from the 10K to that open lead of the resistor. Then solder the other two legs of the 10K to each other and then that's it? Done? What do you mean by "pad"? Not sure what that is, sorry.

Thanks for letting me know that the cap is a .1uf. And explaining how the numbers work. I appreciate that.

Looking forward to your reply!

-D

[zombiwoof]

I thought you said you changed that cap to .01uf, but it seems you have a .1uf in there.  Dunlop for some reason puts a .1uf in those Fuzz Faces, the vintage value is .01uf.  The older ones had a tropical fish cap in there, which was a metallized polyester cap, but any good poly film cap will do.  If you want it true to the originals use a metallized polyester cap.  The .1uf cap will make the pedal bassier, so if you think it's too bassy change that to a .01uf. I've always thought the .1uf that Dunlop uses sounds too muddy, but it's up to your ears.   I'm not sure what changing the 470 ohm resistor to 330 ohm will do, but I would try it since that's what they used in the silicon Fuzz Faces.  Maybe someone else can tell you what effect that will have.  The germanium FF's used the 470 resistor, which is why it's in there now.

Al

[zombiwoof]

yeah, with a 10k trimmer you would just remove one side of the top resistor and wire lug 1 of the trimmer to it then wire lugs 2+3 of the trimmer to the pad where the removed resistor end was. so its board---resistor---to trimmer lug 1  and lugs 2+3 to the empty pad.

Hey "Quackzed",

OK, so I got my hands on a 10K trim pot. It has three "legs". So, let me get this straight, on the board, I cut one of the leads from the 8.2K resistor but leave the other side alone (?). Then solder one of the legs from the 10K to that open lead of the resistor. Then solder the other two legs of the 10K to each other and then that's it? Done? What do you mean by "pad"? Not sure what that is, sorry.

Thanks for letting me know that the cap is a .1uf. And explaining how the numbers work. I appreciate that.

Looking forward to your reply!

-D

If you are using a 10k pot, maybe leaving in the 8.2k would be OK.  The Roger Mayer mods use an 18k there, so with the 10k pot in series with the 8.2k you could get up to 18.2k at maximum on the trimpot if you needed that.  The only problem would be if you needed less than 8.2k to bias the tranny, in that case you'd have to put a lower value resistor in there, like the suggested 4.7k.  I'd say try it with the 8.2k and see if you can get it to bias.  Of course, if you put a pot on the other tranny too you would probably have enough range between them to bias the circuit with that.  I just remembered that I used a 20k pot with a 2.4k resistor there, to give more range, not the 10k, but if the 10k works stay with it.

Al

[Quackzed]

 
pad-each leg of the the resistor is connected to 2 points on the circuit, 2 'pads'
electronics is a tough translation to english..
what i mean is,  cut one side of the grey red red silver resistor(either side)
the trimmer has 3 legs, wire the middle leg (#2) to one of the outer legs (either one ) we'll call it #3
so the trimmer has #1 lug(by itself) and #2 + #3 connected .
now the #1 lug is one side of the trimmer, connect it to the free end of the resistor that you cut.
#2+#3 lugs( that are connected to each other )both get connected to the spot where the resistor was removed from 'the pad' or trace that the resistor leg you remove was attachd to...
heres a before/ after



before...      @----(grey red red gold)---------------@       
   
                                                    (cut)
after      @---(grey red red gold)---          ----@
                                                   \       /

                                                   1      2-3 (trimmer legs 2 is middle)


                                                   

[dstrats]

I thought you said you changed that cap to .01uf, but it seems you have a .1uf in there. 
Al

Hey Al,

I did have a .01uf, but I replaces the OEM cap back to see what would happen. I dig a bassier fuzz myself but I guess I won't know for sure until I bias the trannies to know what I actually like.

"Quackzed", thanks so much for simplifying the info for me and making the diagram. I wish I can get you a beer. I truly appreciate the help!

Alright-y then... I'm going in! Wish me luck!

-D

[zombiwoof]

I thought you said you changed that cap to .01uf, but it seems you have a .1uf in there. 
Al

Hey Al,

I did have a .01uf, but I replaces the OEM cap back to see what would happen. I dig a bassier fuzz myself but I guess I won't know for sure until I bias the trannies to know what I actually like.

"Quackzed", thanks so much for simplifying the info for me and making the diagram. I wish I can get you a beer. I truly appreciate the help!

Alright-y then... I'm going in! Wish me luck!

-D

All I know is that all of the Dunlops with the .1uf cap in there are way too bassy, the bass just overwhelms the sound.  I don't know why they put the .1 in there when .01 is the vintage value, for all of the other values they used the vintage spec, except for that output cap.  But as I said, see for yourself.  I think they saw some of the incorrect schematics floating around that show .1uf for that cap.

The GEO page on Fuzz Faces might tell you what the 470/330 ohm resistor does, but you might want to try changing it to the silicon value (330).

Anyway, good luck and let us know how it goes.

Al

[John Lyons]

the 470/8k2 is a voltage divider. Put a bigger resistor in the 330 spot and you'll get more volume
out of the pedal. You'll change the bit a bit though. If you have a trimmer in the 8k2 spot you can just
adjust for it. 1k or 1k2 is typical for more output volume.

[dstrats]

Hi all!!!

I have to thank you all again for all the great advise, tips, and instructions. I learned alot! You guys are awesome!!! Thanks!

So, here it is:



I placed a NTE194 (the black tranny) in it as well. I wanted to get this FF as close to the Crest FF I own. I originally wanted a NTE199 cuz that's the exact replacement for the SK3245 in my Crest but none of my electrical component stores had 199 so I took a chance and got the 194. (Here's the info on 194 if y'all are curious:http://www.nteinc.com/specs/100to199/pdf/nte194.pdf) I gotta say, it sounds pretty sweet.

So, I first tried to copy the vintage silicone FF placement of the resistors found on "Fuzz Central". But, when I placed the 33K under the 8.2K it didn't work. It just popped. So I had to place it back like it originally was (per the pic). After that debacle, I installed the trim pot to the 8.2K. Just as predicted it didn't bias it very well. I left the trim pot knob at 12 o'clock. When installed, I didn't hear anything at all. I thought I hooked it up wrong being that I'm such a beginner. I took a chance and turned the trim pot's knob counterclockwise and started to hear sound. It still sounded gated & bad. So, I knew I had to get a lower resistor. I ran to my local Radio Shack where they had the exact 4.7K I needed. When I placed the 4.7K in the place of the 8.2K it sounded really great right of the bat. Full fuzz tone and really warm sounding. But, being that we all love to be able to tweak our tones I installed the trim pot. I found a nice place for the pot, 'round 9 o'clock. It sounds really full and great. And best of all un-gated. It cleans up brilliantly when the guitars volume knob is backed off.

Now, at one if my fav component stores called Halted Electronics. In 1/2 watt all they carry are Carbon Comp resistors. So I bought the 330K resistor and a 33K and the matching one that's all the way to the right (on the new pic) just to be consistent. But, as you can see I didn't install them. Not sure if I even should. So I guess later I'll go back to the 'Shack and get the 330K in the style that' in my FF now. Thanks John Lyons for telling us what the 330K does. Not sure how it will react to the 4.7K but we shall see.

Anyway, thanks again guys. Y'all rock! Thanks for helping a less than novice solder-er get the tone I was after with simple instructions and tips. Tomorrow I'll see if that .1uf is too muddy. Compared to the Crest, my Crest seems brighter so, I may just change the Dunlop back to a .01uf. Again, we shall see. Thanks all!!!

-D

[zombiwoof]

Hi all!!!

I have to thank you all again for all the great advise, tips, and instructions. I learned alot! You guys are awesome!!! Thanks!

So, here it is:



I placed a NTE194 (the black tranny) in it as well. I wanted to get this FF as close to the Crest FF I own. I originally wanted a NTE199 cuz that's the exact replacement for the SK3245 in my Crest but none of my electrical component stores had 199 so I took a chance and got the 194. (Here's the info on 194 if y'all are curious:http://www.nteinc.com/specs/100to199/pdf/nte194.pdf) I gotta say, it sounds pretty sweet.

So, I first tried to copy the vintage silicone FF placement of the resistors found on "Fuzz Central". But, when I placed the 33K under the 8.2K it didn't work. It just popped. So I had to place it back like it originally was (per the pic). After that debacle, I installed the trim pot to the 8.2K. Just as predicted it didn't bias it very well. I left the trim pot knob at 12 o'clock. When installed, I didn't hear anything at all. I thought I hooked it up wrong being that I'm such a beginner. I took a chance and turned the trim pot's knob counterclockwise and started to hear sound. It still sounded gated & bad. So, I knew I had to get a lower resistor. I ran to my local Radio Shack where they had the exact 4.7K I needed. When I placed the 4.7K in the place of the 8.2K it sounded really great right of the bat. Full fuzz tone and really warm sounding. But, being that we all love to be able to tweak our tones I installed the trim pot. I found a nice place for the pot, 'round 9 o'clock. It sounds really full and great. And best of all un-gated. It cleans up brilliantly when the guitars volume knob is backed off.

Now, at one if my fav component stores called Halted Electronics. In 1/2 watt all they carry are Carbon Comp resistors. So I bought the 330K resistor and a 33K and the matching one that's all the way to the right (on the new pic) just to be consistent. But, as you can see I didn't install them. Not sure if I even should. So I guess later I'll go back to the 'Shack and get the 330K in the style that' in my FF now. Thanks John Lyons for telling us what the 330K does. Not sure how it will react to the 4.7K but we shall see.

Anyway, thanks again guys. Y'all rock! Thanks for helping a less than novice solder-er get the tone I was after with simple instructions and tips. Tomorrow I'll see if that .1uf is too muddy. Compared to the Crest, my Crest seems brighter so, I may just change the Dunlop back to a .01uf. Again, we shall see. Thanks all!!!

-D

You can't change the position of the resistors on that board, the silicon board that you tried to copy had the circuit board changed, in order to change the position of the resistors from the germanium version (does that make sense?).  In other words, as you found out, you have to keep the components in the same place on the board, but you can change the values if you want.

You also can use the carbon comp resistors if you want, it doesn't matter if you mix resistor types.  I changed all the resistors on my Dunlop FF to carbon comp to be more like the vintage FF's.

It's obvious now from the explanation that the resistor change from 470 ohm in the germanium FF's to the 330 ohm in the silicon was because they were using higher gain transistors in the silicon pedal, and changed that resistor to compensate for the difference.  In your case, since you have a trimpot in place of the 8.2k, you probably don't have to change to the 330, as the trimpot can make up the difference (it sounds like you got it sounding good).

Glad it worked out.

Al

[Quackzed]

yesss!!!!  , thats what its all about!
most fuzzez have a  sweet spot, where they are un-gated and clean up, but the 'standard' resistor isn't always just right, so a trimmer on q2 is a good way to adjust it to the sweet spot.
bravo, for diving into these murky waters! and i  hope the ideas behind these mods make a bit more sence now.
in last nights post, you said you were off to try it out, so i crossed my fingers for ya 
i was hoping today i'd read of your success and you didn't dissapoint.
glad you got it fuzzing and glad i could help.

your one of us now! 

[dstrats]

yesss!!!!  , thats what its all about!
glad you got it fuzzing and glad i could help.
8)your one of us now! 

Hey guys!

Glad to be in the club!!! 

I played it louder this morning and could not remove the smile from my face. It sounded like I've always wanted it to sound. Just brilliant! I couldn't have done it with out y'all so thanks, thanks, thanks!!! 

Al, I was just taking a chance whilst I was in there to make it seem more accurate but oh well. It sounds great. I may change the resistors to Carbon Comp but not sure. I'm just so pleased I was able to complete the mod.

BTW, in my Crest FF there is a 22K Cap on the 2-3 lugs of the fuzz pot. What does that do? Should I place that in my modded Dunlop?

Thanks again guys! Quackzed, and Al, I owe you both a beer! Thanks so much!

Take care guys! I'll be 'round from time to time askin' more stuff and getting more time with the solder gun. 

[Quackzed]

thats a 22uf cap, and its already on your dunlop board, rather than on the pot, but it will be wired the same in the circuit , so its there already.
cheers !!

[dstrats]

Thanks Q,

That makes sense.

Take care all!

[snarblinge]

so now you need to take all those bonus parts you have and build another one from scratch, ah the satisfaction.

welcome to the gang.

[dstrats]

so now you need to take all those bonus parts you have and build another one from scratch, ah the satisfaction.
welcome to the gang.

Funny you mention that,

I was totally thinking of that. Thanks for the welcome. 

Take care.