Gyrator from CMOS stage ?

[WGTP]

I just made the first stage of a 3 stage 4049 distortion into the Hi stage used in the Mr. EQ for a treble boost.  Seems to be doing the job, but for a distortion, it doesn't have to be pretty.  I have also thought about using the Low stage for bass recovery after the distortion. 

[jbord39]

Everything has a dual...

Really? What is the dual for a transformer?

Step up/down voltage/current.  Power supplies use them to step down voltage.  They also provide electrical isolation.  I've even seen them in guitar pedals for different purposes than power supplies.  That enough?

[Brymus]

WOW thanks Paul.
I really appreciate the effort you have put into helping me 
I agree with the other posters ,it doesnt have to be pretty its a very distorted dirty pedal.

WGTP good to know it works,I thought of using a stage for a boost as well,I thought a clean boost as I found a CMOS clean boost schematic somewhere.But I like that you made that work,something to try for sure.A switch to jump the stage/s would be easy
to add,A bass boost sounds good ,let me know if it works.

I havent had a chance to try anything yet,I was messing with the BMP yesterday,I need to get it off my breadboard 
Right now both pedals share the same tone controls by moving a couple of jumpers around.
Actually this CMOS pedal was supposed to be an Xmas present for a friend of mine last year,at this rate he might get it this Xmas.

[JDoyle]

Everything has a dual...

Really? What is the dual for a transformer?

Step up/down voltage/current.  Power supplies use them to step down voltage.  They also provide electrical isolation.  I've even seen them in guitar pedals for different purposes than power supplies.  That enough?

No. Not in the least, actually. (They also step UP voltage - otherwise tube amps would be impossible.)

I know what a transformer DOES and how it can be USED. Even outside of isolation and power supplies. And, as insane as this may sound: even though I am an ignorant non-EE.

My question was/is - what is the DUAL of a transformer?

What circuit can mimic/replicate the function/action of a transformer?

PRR??? In case you missed it earlier: If "everything has a dual", like you so confidently and absolutely stated, what is the dual of a transformer???

[Ben N]

I just made the first stage of a 3 stage 4049 distortion into the Hi stage used in the Mr. EQ for a treble boost.  Seems to be doing the job, but for a distortion, it doesn't have to be pretty.  I have also thought about using the Low stage for bass recovery after the distortion.  

Exactly the thought I had percolating in my head for... years. (Pretty sure I posted it here somewhere, in lieu of actually doing something about it.) The issue with CMOS distortions is that you have to severely gut the bass at the input to keep them from getting farty (see: Red Llama). The solution then ought to be to boost it back post-distortion, a la Barber's phono-eq concept. The Mr. EQ sections seem ready made for the purpose, and the chip is already there.
The mid section ought to also be useful, whether for getting a scooped-y tone or for a TS-esque mid-boost for leads. I'm not sure whether that ought to go in front or in back of the distortion.

[Ben N]

Everything has a dual...

Really? What is the dual for a transformer?

Step up/down voltage/current.  Power supplies use them to step down voltage.  They also provide electrical isolation.  I've even seen them in guitar pedals for different purposes than power supplies.  That enough?

No. Not in the least, actually. (They also step UP voltage - otherwise tube amps would be impossible.)

I know what a transformer DOES and how it can be USED. Even outside of isolation and power supplies. And, as insane as this may sound: even though I am an ignorant non-EE.

My question was/is - what is the DUAL of a transformer?

What circuit can mimic/replicate the function/action of a transformer?

PRR??? In case you missed it earlier: If "everything has a dual", like you so confidently and absolutely stated, what is the dual of a transformer???

Hi, Jay, nice to see you around, and that you haven't lost your vinegar. I don't think PRR meant precise replication of a device's characteristic, justspecific functions, approximately. So, some transformer functions can be approximated by a switching supply, others by a voltage doubler, others by buffers. Roughly. I guess.

[FiveseveN]

what is the dual of a transformer???

To be fair I don't think you can count a transformer as a single passive element: it's two coupled inductors.
You can replicate the function of a transformer, although with less efficiency, by using some other intermediate "force" other than magnetism: a motor driving a dynamo or alternator, a light source (high-efficiency one like LED or laser, preferably) feeding a photovoltaic cell and so on.
And I've always thought "dual" is similar to "inverse", like capacitance to inductance. In which case... we all know about capacitative coupling but can one construct an inverse-transformer?
Sorry for feeding the offtopic discussion

[earthtonesaudio]

PRR??? In case you missed it earlier: If "everything has a dual", like you so confidently and absolutely stated, what is the dual of a transformer???

A switched capacitor voltage converter.  Step up voltage at the expense of current, or vice versa, as well as invert.  I think that about covers it.

[Lurco]

Everything has a dual...

Really? What is the dual for a transformer?

Step up/down voltage/current.  Power supplies use them to step down voltage.  They also provide electrical isolation.  I've even seen them in guitar pedals for different purposes than power supplies.  That enough?

No. Not in the least, actually. (They also step UP voltage - otherwise tube amps would be impossible.)

I know what a transformer DOES and how it can be USED. Even outside of isolation and power supplies. And, as insane as this may sound: even though I am an ignorant non-EE.

My question was/is - what is the DUAL of a transformer?

What circuit can mimic/replicate the function/action of a transformer?

PRR??? In case you missed it earlier: If "everything has a dual", like you so confidently and absolutely stated, what is the dual of a transformer???

Two port-to-port wired gyrators: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3713050.html

or this: http://www.aerosmart.umd.edu/TechPubs/pratt_1.pdf

[WGTP]

Yes, the CMOS distortions need small input caps and I like at least 100k of resistance at the input too.  But, that reduces the gain of the first stage, which is why I have 3 cranked up.  Using the "treble boost" is allowing me to use a larger input cap for some more bass, and I will try reducing the input resistance.  The gain of the first stage is now significantly higher (I rescaled it for more gain replacing the 270k resistors with 470k for more gain, the 680pf cap with 470pf and 100pf with 47pf) with an edge that may require some taming later on in the circuit.  I'm using a passive mid/high reduction at the end since there is so much output, but may try the low section of Mr. EQ for fun. 

Every since the Mr. EQ came out I have been messing with combining it with the Double D and 3 Legged Dog.  6 inverters of mosfet grind, too much temptation.  Cools stuff.   

[PRR]

> PRR??? In case you missed it earlier: If "everything has a dual", like you so confidently and absolutely stated, what is the dual of a transformer???

Some things are sure; but the implications may not be known.

I don't know.

"Dual" theory is very useful in modeling acoustic networks with electric networks. A classic write-up is Dynamical Analogies by Harry Olson {6MB PDF file}.

I'm grateful to FiveseveN for "I don't think you can count a transformer as a single passive element".

One thing which may not be well known: there are two (extreme) ways a "transformer" may be used. Potential and Current. With a potential transformer you apply a voltage and expect a ratio of that voltage at the other winding, which is "lightly loaded". Current transformers transfer a current ratio into a "nearly shorted" winding. Current transformers used to be the toys of arc-lamp and power distribution geeks. However today many small switcher power supplies have a current transformer sensing switch current. Potential transformers and Current transformers are constructed the same, and sometimes the same physical part may be useful both ways.

> capacitative coupling but can one construct an inverse-transformer?

One of the old National Semi app-notes has a cap-coupled power transfer scheme to supply power to instrumentation standing on a 5,000V tower. 5KV isolation is a lot for a small transformer, not too bad for caps. They also have a piezo scheme. Consider a piezo tweeter. Drive it loud. Put a piezo (crystal) mike in front. You get electricity. For normal piezo stuff, not much power comes out, and acoustic losses are large. They fabricated the send and receive piezos as a single ring of high-voltage piezo stuff. Power passes as mechanical vibration, and direct electric conductivity is very-very small. This "should" function as a transformer: not only passing power to a load, but also from "load" to "source", just like an iron-core can (speaker kick-back to plate windings). However I think the coupling ratio for practical piezo-stuff runs like 0.5. Iron-core transformers normally run 0.99 to 0.999 or more. As a bad analogy: try a hammer which puts 50% of your arm-swing to the nail, then one which puts 99% to the nail. Bad enough for a single whack, but in repetitive resonant whacking the 50% really adds-down, while a 99% swings like a pendulum do.

[WGTP]

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/WGTP/CMOSorizer.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1

Yes, that is an open loop, I think...