YOUR opinion? - using expression pedals in live performance

[joegagan]

a response prompted by jamiefbolton's Q about controlling a delay with exp. pedals.

i also had the desire to control wet/dry,and/or delay time in a live situation. a delay can sound awesome, especially for soaring leads, but if you leave it on all the time your phrasing gets lost in the wash... a good alternative is to sweep it in and out at key phrases to build energy without getting muddled.

in the mid 90s i used a digitech valve FX rack mount multifx processor with a control1 foot controller, loud 3 piece blues rock band.
i programmed two delay presets to allow control of wet/dry, and a 2nd patch with control of delay time since there was only one footpedal on the control1.

i found the setting with the wet/dry to be very useful for adding texture and depth, but the overall effect was probably lost in the swirl of cymbals and other loudness of the band. the effect worked better for slow or quiet passages, but we spent more of the time being loud. in the end i usually only used it about two times in a four hour gig.

changing the delay time on the fly was trickier, and got too complicated most of the time for live performance.

i guess it depends on the type of music. it seems in retrospect that a lot of the things i used to fantasize about controlling in real time were too subtle to add anything to the audience's experience, usually just added to the confusion onstage and took away from actually playing the guitar well.

same can be said for rocker pedals that go from clean to dirty. it seems like it would be really cool until you do it live. the audience does not benefit from this in my experience. in a good tube amp setup with good OD or fuzz pedals, the control of grit is much more organic if it comes from your guitar volume control and playing dynamics.

a good player can make use of tap tempo and looping, i have seen many great examples of clever use of these. but i also got a little tired of looped passages sounding predictable and machinelike when overused or used unimagintively.

what are everyone's opinions and experiences with controller pedals onstage?

[spectraljulian]

I find them really useful myself.  I use a volume pedal sort of an expression to control wet volume, so I can queue a loop while playing, then twiddle the knobs and have these weird off kilter loops burst out of nowhere for a bar.  Also on a pitch shifter it's almost a necessity.  It's also really awesome with filters. 

[joegagan]

julian,wow, where can i hear examples? sounds cool.

[spectraljulian]

Not really any recordings that I'm super proud of that really show it off well.  My one song that was really heavy on the pitch shifting I never recorded. 

I need to record more/start a new band.  

I think it all depends on the kind of music.  If you're like me and consider FX to be an extension of your instrument, expression pedals are a must.  If FX are all about just altering the tonality of your guitar, then they're much less necessary.  

When I use an expression pedal, it's more for the effect of using the expression pedal than to alter a setting.  Using it to set delay times between songs seems kind of silly.  Just have a tap-tempo or lean over and adjust it.  Now if you want that sound of your repeats being pitch shifted in a song, then that's a decent reason to use one.  Of if you want to control your repeats for self oscillation.  

The only exception to this rule I would say would be volume pedals.  Volume knob is more for utilizing the dynamics of a drive, but a volume pedal is nice when you'd like to turn up your amp, not necessarily your volume knob.  (for example, that fuzz isn't cutting through as much as you'd like/more than you thought. . . quick volume pedal adjustment and you're gold.)

[Joe Hart]

I certainly don't have much to offer compared to Julian, but since you asked for everyone's opinions... If you count a wah, a volume pedal, and a rotovibe "expression pedals," then I use some. Other than that, I really use effects to change my sound. I usually have on all the time a tuner (not an effect, but it is a pedal), a DOD 250 clone, a noise gate, and a chorus (set for more stereo separation than a real chorusy effect). Then I do use the aforementioned three pedals as well as a Phase 90, a harmonizer, a delay, a homemade fuzz face, and an MXR flanger.

So, if you count the wah, etc. as expression pedals, then that's what I use. If not, then I don't use any. But I'm more old school where using the delay to "harmonize" with myself (a la "Brighton Rock") is the cutting edge of high tech! Loops are what I get in my cord when I wander around on stage to much.
-Joe Hart

[Paul Marossy]

same can be said for rocker pedals that go from clean to dirty. it seems like it would be really cool until you do it live. the audience does not benefit from this in my experience. in a good tube amp setup with good OD or fuzz pedals, the control of grit is much more organic if it comes from your guitar volume control and playing dynamics.

That's what I do. I control my sound mostly by changing my playing dynamics. I hardly ever touch the volume or tone controls on my guitar, but I use a volume pedal a lot to do swells. I really mainly use it to control the volume of my guitar and the overall loudness of my amp - they work hand in hand.

[Steve Newton]

I have an old Zoom 9050 and one of it's delay modules has "input gain" as a controlable parameter. ESSENTIAL effect control. You can fade up the delay AND when you're done fade it out. BUT have the delays tail off as you keep playing. Much more useful than changing the balance or mix of the delay and massively more useful than the simple on/off of a delay pedal.

[petemoore]

what are everyone's opinions and experiences with controller pedals onstage?
  The desire to translocate from a tiled bathroom to a cathedral, only to emerge in a room with carpet and brick/wood walls has yet to be fulfilled.
  I put a ziptie on my Line6 EP's mix control, the dancing maneuvers allowed time and mix changes anyway, some mileage there.
  Rythm requires attack, leads...anything else, too mush echo is a mix problem.
  The three main controls...to really get everything out of this one unit, two humans with quick and steady trained hands would be needed to adjust Mix, Feedback, Tempo.
  Somehow, presets for every parameter and remebering the patch #'s seems less intuitive and desirable than the amazingly intuitive, easy to control exactly, does everything from your basic reverb rythm-tone to slapback, and long 'hear the echo attack/sustain type echoes...all analog controlled.
  This would require >1 parameter [probably 3 at the same time] to be controlled...fancy foot work, 2 parameters on a treadle ? The rate of 'this' paramater would need to be adjustable, there'll be want for the feedback amount to swing fast compared to the mix when...it all gets too complicated.
  Not exaclty the simplest thing to set up...caves, cathedrals, halls with chamber on the side, room and dry-head-phone !

[stringsthings]

i found the setting with the wet/dry to be very useful for adding texture and depth, but the overall effect was probably lost in the swirl of cymbals and other loudness of the band. the effect worked better for slow or quiet passages, but we spent more of the time being loud. in the end i usually only used it about two times in a four hour gig ...
... i guess it depends on the type of music. it seems in retrospect that a lot of the things i used to fantasize about controlling in real time were too subtle to add anything to the audience's experience, usually just added to the confusion onstage and took away from actually playing the guitar well.

same can be said for rocker pedals that go from clean to dirty. it seems like it would be really cool until you do it live. the audience does not benefit from this in my experience .....

interesting subject .... apologies for going a bit off-topic ...

you mentioned "the audience" in regards to what they may or may not perceive .... in my experience, what the audience experiences or perceives is beyond your control .... your job when you play is to use whatever equipment that you have brought to the gig to the best of your creative ability .... if you have pedals and you want to use them, then you should use them ... if you feel that you've brought too much equipment to the show, or that you're spending too much time with your pedals, then you should limit your "equipment fiddling" for that gig/song/phrase/note  ....

as a player, if the sound coming out of your amp inspires you, then you will translate that excitement through your playing to the audience .... my advice is to not be concerned with what the audience is experiencing  ..... it sound selfish, but focus on your experience .... if you impress yourself, then chances are someone in the audience will be impressed ...

again, apologies for going off topic ....

[GibsonGM]

I like to have an expression pedal to control my gain (distortion), so when going from a mellow tune to wild (or in a song that shifts in the middle), I can bring distortion up and down.   If I could figure out a way to program in a bass increase when I bring the distortion down, that would be better!!  For now, I just turn up the neck pup on my LP.
 
I have a few patches with delay, phase, env. filter, etc., but don't use them all that much.  I find that playing live in a smaller setting (up to maybe 500 people), the audience sees through most of the 'techie stuff' (saxophones that aren't there, etc, ha ha).  They actually will turn away if I use too much effect!    Wild-assed delay would just seem cheesy to the people that come see us.   I tree to keep it 'straight' with more filter effects, less reverby effects (since most of my gigs are not in a football stadium...). 

So it depends on the genre and audience, IMO.  From a utilitarian viewpoint, exp. pedal allows me to control my distortion without bending down, or to wet/dry delay, phasing, and to be consistent...but must be used sparingly at MY job, or I run the risk of looking like I am overly effect-dependent.  If one was playing more modern techie stuff, pitch shifters and the like might be more appropriate!   I run from Zeppelin to Jack White, so no 'space stuff' really.

[Processaurus]

Performing, I've found that my favorite uses of expression pedals are circumstances where they control something dynamic and interesting, as a sound design tool, that the changing of the parameter is what is exciting, rather than getting the parameter, like volume, set  precisely so and leaving it for a while.  The static, half %^&*ed control pedal is a big question mark and makes me nervous as a performer, because there is no clear visual indication of where it is set, so it will be different every night.  Also it can easily get bumped, when your back is turned.  Consistent and reproducible sound from equipment is huge for not doubting the music is coming across right (especially when the stage sound isn't the best, and you have to trust it sounds right in the house) and having pedals be an unknown variable, seems to drain attention away from performing.

I've wanted to make a pedal like the geofex multi-vol (a bunch of footswitches that have a preset volume for each) for a while, as it is like a volume pedal, but with limited, repeatable settings.  I can't believe there isn't a commercial product like that.

[joegagan]

great responses, thanks everyone. interesting, there are a thousand different takes on the subject. i already learned a lot from this thread.

stringsnthings- i see your point. i was definitely projecting what i thought the audience was experiencing. in reality, no way to know.

but your point that if the equipment pleases and inspires the performer, then the audience experience is enhanced ( i think that is what you meant) has great merit.

i saw imogen heap a few years ago, she had created an onstage world that was like lookng into a lifesize magical music box dancer singer thing. she seemed oblivious of the audience , but was mesmerizing because she was creating in her idealized 'world'. on some level, all of us are doing that to some degree or another when we go onstage.

[stringsthings]

exactly  ... that's what i was getting at ....  

i saw imogen heap a few years ago, she had created an onstage world that was like lookng into a lifesize magical music box dancer singer thing. she seemed oblivious of the audience , but was mesmerizing because she was creating in her idealized 'world'. on some level, all of us are doing that to some degree or another when we go onstage.

excellent observation .... and as a guitar player, we're playing/creating with sound on stage .... and performing lets the audience in on what we're doing .... expression pedals allow the guitarist another avenue of real-time control ... ( to augment what we're doing with our hands ) ... i suppose the classic real-time controller is the wah pedal ... and as far as more recent innovators, Tom Morello is quite the real-time controller .... [ he's like a human EFX pedal   ]

[Paul Marossy]

i saw imogen heap a few years ago, she had created an onstage world that was like lookng into a lifesize magical music box dancer singer thing. she seemed oblivious of the audience , but was mesmerizing because she was creating in her idealized 'world'. on some level, all of us are doing that to some degree or another when we go onstage.

For me, it all depends on the context. There are some times when I "play for crowd", but mostly I do what I feel will enhance or embellish a song without making it too busy or being a distraction. I don't start thinking about what the audience might be thinking, that's a pit to fall into. They will interpret what I am doing however they want to, I have no control over that.

I guess some people might interpret you being in your own world when doing your thing as being out of touch with the crowd, anti-social or whatever. But for some performers, their music takes them somewhere else, that's all.

I say all of this as being one who plays primarily in a church setting, so I am not really "performing" in that setting. But I might be performing for a big Easter production rock opera thing, but that is a different type of setting with a different purpose.