Problem with Orange Squeezer Clone

[PCR]

I am hoping to get some advise about a problem I am having with an Orange Squeezer compressor that I recently built using the schematic and layout plans from the Tonepad site.  I really like the sound of the unit, but I have had two times happen recently where the unit stops passing any signal.  Both times I was able to just hit the bypass switch and restore the signal to the rest of my pedal board effects.  The intermittent failures have happened at band practice, and by the time I got the unit home it was working fine, so I was not able to do any testing.   I power the unit from a power supply, which also powers my other effects.  I have the compressor as the first in my line of effects.  I have a buffer between the guitar and the compressor.

Here is the schematic link:

http://www.tonepad.com/getFile.asp?id=88

Are there components in the circuit that might be prone to intermittent failure?  Any advise you have would be appreciated.

Thank You!

[jkokura]

Chances are you've either got something wrong with your switch or that there's a small problem in your wiring. The challenge is that you haven't been able to replicate the problem. If the compressor works fine when it's engaged, then the board itself is probably fine, and it sounds like the wiring is good too, but it might be that your bypass wire on the switch might have become broken or disconnected. Worst case scenario is that you have to replace the switch, but try examining and playing around with the bypass wire and see if you can figure out if it's broken.

Without a picture of your switch wiring I can't tell you which one it is, but hopefully you'll know which wire I'm talking about.

Jacob

[Mark Hammer]

My experience is that the OS likes to have its input connected to the input jack and see signal at all times.  Something needs to be in those electrolytic caps in the control circuit, and when there isn't, it misbehaves by taking a few seconds to switch over from bypass to effect as those caps charge up.

It can be perplexing to those accustomed to having true bypass circuits work properly first time out.  And here is where the "long view" and knowledge of FX history can be your friend.  The OS stems from a time in pedal history when the majority of effects were NOT "true bypass", so it was assumed the input of the circuit would always be receiving an uninterrupted input signal.  Port that circuit to a historic period where things are designed in anticipation of other switches being widely available, and you run into such anomalous occurrences.

Ideally, what the OS needs is a nice input buffer stage such that you can either take the "bypass" signal from that point, or can use old-school SPDT output-only switching between the input jack and circuit output, but without having to worry about the input circuit of the OS loading things down.

[PCR]

Thank you both! 

Mark, I want to make sure that I understand what you are describing.  I leave the compressor on all the time, so the failures have happened when it has been seeing signal. Does that impact your sense of what might be happening?   Thanks!!

[Mark Hammer]

Close.

I think you CAN'T use true bypass switching.  That is, you must leave the OS circuit input connected to the input jack at all times, and do your bypass switching by selecting between the input jack and the wiper of the output level pot. I.E., the old school effect switching that everyone says "sucks tone".

Note that ALL effects, regardless of switching method, are on all the time; you just don't hear them because the signal bypasses the effect.  The power to the circuit is never disconnected.  So, while you won't hear the OS, the OS will "hear" you, and that stored charge in the caps will leave the OS "in uniform and available for duty" when you switch the pedal into effect mode, rather than leaving it in bed in its pajamas and needing a bit of time to get ready.

[PCR]

Hi Mark,
The way that I have been using the compressor is to have it in the signal chain all the time- I never bypass it.  The failures have been sudden and not related to any switching of the effect in or out.  I have an a/b box that I use to switch between 2 guitars, but the compressor is always in the signal chain.  The failure has not occurred when switching guitars, but rather has happened in mid-song.   I can definitely change the bypass wiring to come off the pot wiper, but does that still seem like it might be the issue given the way I have been using the compressor.

Thanks again!

[Mark Hammer]

Ahhhhhhhh.....well that's different.  Never mind.

[oldrocker]

An overly hot soldered foot switch may cause this.  I have a few pedals that drop in and out because I had to super heat up the pins to get the solder to flow.  Ruined a few foot switches doing that.

[stringsthings]

Chances are you've either got something wrong with your switch or that there's a small problem in your wiring. The challenge is that you haven't been able to replicate the problem.....

+1

if you can recreate the problem, then you'll have a better idea of the cause .... while it is tempting to suspect a fault in a component, 99 times out of 100 that is not the problem ....

i would suggest hooking up your pedal chain at home and try replicating the problem

[PCR]

Thanks everyone,  it is frustrating that I can't replicate the problem.  As I mentioned earlier this has happened twice now.  The last time was yesterday- fortunately it failed during a practice session getting ready for a show, and not during the show itself, so I was able to take the unit out of the signal chain.   

I checked my foot switch connections today and everything looks solid.  When I powered the unit up today it came right on.  The one thing I did notice is that for the first minute or so of operation, the unit makes crackly, static like noises, then it seems to settle down and those noises are no longer there.  Any ideas about what that might be, and if that could that be connected to the intermittent failure problem?

Thanks again!

[Mark Hammer]

Crackly, static-like nosies are sometimes the sign of a faulty celectrolytic cap.

At the risk of droning on about it again, do consider the perennial issue of internal grease in the stompswitch, that flowed over the contacts inside because of too much heat during soldering.  It is possible, in many cases, to pry up the taps of the stompswitch, open it up (don't lose the pieces!), clean the grease off the banana-shaped rocker contacts, place them back in, and re-assemble.  I've done that many many times, and "rehabilitated" faulty stompswitches with great success.

The grease problem (and I will note that I've found considerable variability in just how much grease is inside those switches) is one of those things that can drive you crazy, because it can introduce inconsistent performance, as well as complete failure.  Remember, we're talking about grease, which can be pushed around such that sometimes there is enough to completely block contact, and sometimes there isn't.

[PCR]

Thanks Mark!  I will check the foot switch.  You also mentioned the possibility that an electrolytic might be bad.  There are 4 in the circuit.  Is there any way to determine which one is more likely to be causing a problem?

[Mark Hammer]

Well, are there any you have used previously, and needed to unsolder from somewhere else before soldering them into your OS?

[PCR]

Hi Mark,
No they were all new.

[oldrocker]

I knew about the grease in the footswitch but mine won't open.  Hopefully yours do.

[zombiwoof]

Close.

I think you CAN'T use true bypass switching.  That is, you must leave the OS circuit input connected to the input jack at all times, and do your bypass switching by selecting between the input jack and the wiper of the output level pot. I.E., the old school effect switching that everyone says "sucks tone".

Note that ALL effects, regardless of switching method, are on all the time; you just don't hear them because the signal bypasses the effect.  The power to the circuit is never disconnected.  So, while you won't hear the OS, the OS will "hear" you, and that stored charge in the caps will leave the OS "in uniform and available for duty" when you switch the pedal into effect mode, rather than leaving it in bed in its pajamas and needing a bit of time to get ready.

Mark, if the OS circuit doesn't like true bypass switching, how do you explain all of the OS clones on the market that have use true bypass?.  I myself have a BBE Main Squeeze that is TB, and there are others out there that are also TB (the AnalogMan version, for instance).  Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying.

Al

[Mark Hammer]

Well, it's been my experience at any rate.  Now, that could very well be because it's not set up "right".  For example, maybe the bypass/effect transition is aided by some settings of the trimpot, and not by others.  All I know is that when I used TB, and engaged the OS, I had to wait for that sucker to charge up.  Bloody irritating.

....And of course, as we have been discussing in that Behringer PH9 thread, there are a lot of pedals that use the term "true bypass", and similar, but aren't.

I knew about the grease in the footswitch but mine won't open.  Hopefully yours do.

I've not seen a stompswitch without tabs, except for the Carlings that have rivets.  Is it one of those?

[zombiwoof]

Well, it's been my experience at any rate.  Now, that could very well be because it's not set up "right".  For example, maybe the bypass/effect transition is aided by some settings of the trimpot, and not by others.  All I know is that when I used TB, and engaged the OS, I had to wait for that sucker to charge up.  Bloody irritating.

....And of course, as we have been discussing in that Behringer PH9 thread, there are a lot of pedals that use the term "true bypass", and similar, but aren't.

I knew about the grease in the footswitch but mine won't open.  Hopefully yours do.

I've not seen a stompswitch without tabs, except for the Carlings that have rivets.  Is it one of those?

I know for a fact that the AnalogMan and BBE pedals are true bypass, using a 3PDT switch.  With my BBE, there is nothing like the problem you are describing.  Maybe as you say the problem you had is related to the way your build is set up or something.

Al

[.Mike]

Well, it's been my experience at any rate.  Now, that could very well be because it's not set up "right".  For example, maybe the bypass/effect transition is aided by some settings of the trimpot, and not by others.  All I know is that when I used TB, and engaged the OS, I had to wait for that sucker to charge up.  Bloody irritating.

I know for a fact that the AnalogMan and BBE pedals are true bypass, using a 3PDT switch.  With my BBE, there is nothing like the problem you are describing.  Maybe as you say the problem you had is related to the way your build is set up or something.

Since this is already venturing off-topic... I've experienced the same thing as Mark, as have other people according to what I've read. I'm fairly convinced, though, that the vast majority of the Orange Squeezer clones aren't setup right, and I wouldn't doubt that some commercially-made models are improperly setup.

It seems like some people think that the entire range of the trimpot that allows sound to pass applies compression, which it does not. The trimpot, when properly set, has the narrowest of narrow ranges where compression is actually present. Set it too low and you get no sound. Set it even a fraction too high and you have a booster, not a compressor. You have to set it right in the middle of the crunchy static that occurs in the transition between no sound and full sound. I have verified this using a signal generator and looking at the resulting gain reduction in Audition.

If an Orange Squeezer clone has a single-turn trimpot, chances are it is not setup right, at least if you want it to function as a compressor and not a booster. If an Orange Squeezer clone has the trimpot as an external pot, chances are it is not setup right. Mine has an internal 25-turn trimmer, and it sounds great. It actually compresses, and I can confirm that visually as well as audibly. It is true bypass, and it does have a gain drop when turning it on. I think that the slight click of the switch and the LED firing up is enough to trigger the compression, and the fade-in of the sound that I (and Mark) experience is the release of the compressor, since it's slow and smooth.

Just my $0.02.

Mike

[Mark Hammer]

Thank you.

It is always a pleasure to know that one is not either certifiably nuts or incompetent.

I'll give that trimpot the once over.  I have some 10-turns in the parts bin.  I'll see if one of those fits in the available space, and report back.