DIYstompbox Competitions

[JKowalski]

So, with the 666 competition going on strong with lots of promised entries, I began to think about the FX-X system that we've had running for a long time now. Maybe its time for a revamp?

FX-X has recently been dying a slow but sure death.... There hasn't been any activity since april! Even though it's supposed to be a monthly thing. People never finish their entries, so it always drags on over a month anyways... The lack of a prize draws very little competition... I'd been hoping to compete in one, but the lethargic atmosphere of the competition is not very appealing! Looking back, it seemed to start pretty strong but now it seems the magic has gone.

If we were to set FX-X up as a much longer time scheduled event, and include prizes donated by the forum to compete for, I am sure the event would rapidly climb to approach the atmosphere that we have going in the 666 competition. It is a shame to see FX-X dying at the moment, I loved to see the creativity and output that it inspired in people. It brought fresh schematics and ideas into the community that normally get thrown out or never developed and shared. I know there was a general negativity towards prizes in the event when it started, and I approve of the reasoning behind that. Spending too much money, for example. Then again, FX-X has largely been a design focused event and many entries never have to get past a breadboard stage for entry...

Now as for a prize, I suggest that the "forum" donate things. I don't know how reliable the generosity of the people here is, though... I know from my time at DIYstompboxes that a lot of us are strapped for cash and sensitive about giving things away... What do you think? Is this feasible? I'm not talking about a prize to give away monthly in the style of FX-X traditionally but maybe every 3 months or so.

Keeping the time frame longer would probably be another factor in keeping the competition strong. One of the reasons I think FX-X has died is that it came around far too often. It didn't really ever feel very "fresh". If it's a rarer event, maybe people would have a longer time to get interested in the competition and pile up for the next one, and they will retain some of the excitement of a new experience... The old idea that if it happens every day it isn't very special...

Thoughts? Discussion? 

[CynicalMan]

If the competition time frame was to become longer, I think broader categories would have to be used. One of the strengths of the current system is that if a member finds it difficult to participate in one month's competition, they can wait a moth or two and participate in an FX-X that's maybe more suited to their knowledge, or the parts they have, or whatever. Also, having broader categories would encourage more people who are just starting to design, who might shy away from "Design something with a CA3080." but who might enter something like "Design a modulation effect."

For the prizes, I think giving a stompbox would be difficult with finding a donor, dealing with shipping, etc. Giving an online gift certificate to a guitar retailer or to a electronic part retailer may be better.

I don't know whether the idea of an longer FX-X with prizes will work in practice, but, in theory, I think it's a good idea.

[JKowalski]

If the competition time frame was to become longer, I think broader categories would have to be used. One of the strengths of the current system is that if a member finds it difficult to participate in one month's competition, they can wait a moth or two and participate in an FX-X that's maybe more suited to their knowledge, or the parts they have, or whatever. Also, having broader categories would encourage more people who are just starting to design, who might shy away from "Design something with a CA3080." but who might enter something like "Design a modulation effect."

For the prizes, I think giving a stompbox would be difficult with finding a donor, dealing with shipping, etc. Giving an online gift certificate to a guitar retailer or to a electronic part retailer may be better.

I don't know whether the idea of an longer FX-X with prizes will work in practice, but, in theory, I think it's a good idea.

You could do alot with a CA3080! 

I see what you mean as far as people having difficulty in particular competitions... I suppose it's a balance between the length of the competition and the prize. 3 months, four times a year was my first thought. Four times a year seems kind of long... The 666 competition is supposedly projected at two months total, and that seems like a nice length of time for the competition aspect. But could we really get a prize every two months?

Maybe there's a simpler way to rejuvenate the FX-X that I'm just not seeing. Maybe not even a physical prize... A "design/pedal of the month" on the front page of DIYstompboxes, for example? Focus on "advertising" more then redesigning?

[The Tone God]

Early on I looked into having prizes, contacting different people for sponsorships, but it didn't end up being a good idea. First someone has to cough up the prize, then someone has to deal with shipping and paying for shipping. Another concern was if there were prizes then people with more resources would get involved leaving the beginners behind as they couldn't compete and I think they spirit is to allow everyone regardless of level to join in. It was agreed that prizes would be out of place for a community that operates like ours.

I had asked a few times about perhaps making the themes be bi-monthly. This would give more time particularly for beginners to join in and those with jobs or have a hard time getting parts in time. The response was usually 50/50 but I noticed a few of those that wanted it kept to a month didn't end up entering. The other reason I like the two month theme is that we can explore tougher topics or expand even more on simple ones or multiple entries.

I think the next one will be official a two month theme just to try it out.

Andrew

[potul]

A little OT:
According to this guy, adding higher rewarding does not drive better results:
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/dan_pink_on_motivation.html

Interesting point of view.

although in our case, I guess the idea is to get more participation, not faster results.

Regards

Mat

[JKowalski]

Early on I looked into having prizes, contacting different people for sponsorships, but it didn't end up being a good idea. First someone has to cough up the prize, then someone has to deal with shipping and paying for shipping. Another concern was if there were prizes then people with more resources would get involved leaving the beginners behind as they couldn't compete and I think they spirit is to allow everyone regardless of level to join in. It was agreed that prizes would be out of place for a community that operates like ours.

I had asked a few times about perhaps making the themes be bi-monthly. This would give more time particularly for beginners to join in and those with jobs or have a hard time getting parts in time. The response was usually 50/50 but I noticed a few of those that wanted it kept to a month didn't end up entering. The other reason I like the two month theme is that we can explore tougher topics or expand even more on simple ones or multiple entries.

I think the next one will be official a two month theme just to try it out.

Andrew

I was hoping you'd join in!

Perhaps the prize idea should be thrown out after all.

I was thinking about what you said as far as "leaving the beginners behind". There's a problem to think about... I mean, the competition is largely to promote development of new ideas and share them with the community, right? Regardless, you'll be seeing people with more "resources" (knowledge) outperforming the beginners. If I came into this forum and entered the FX-X without even knowing what a transistor does then do I deserve much of a chance anyways? It IS a competition after all, they take some skill. If you try to do anything about that, then you'd just get rid of all the people who were contributing the strongest ideas. Unless you switch totally to a more artistic focus (Like the 666 competition)... But that really kills whats best about the FX-X.

Perhaps there could be two side by side competitions? An artistic and a design one? You wouldn't even have to set anything up for it really. Actually you could just make it so that people who post in the pictures thread automatically enter (unless they dont want to) and every month people vote on who posted the most creative/artistic/well designed pedal that month... Though it is kind of unelegant, and may cause problems due to way too many pedals to vote on (i estimated by half-counting that there are 100 pedals posted every month  ). Hmmm, maybe not. But an artistic themed competition in addition to the design competition would be a great other-side to FX-X that may attract many of the less electronics-savvy members.

Also, now that I have though about it more, I definitely think that a section on the DIYstompbox front page would be a great incentive. Sort of like Project Guitar has. A big picture of the winning pedal and a link to the winner schematic. With an page for the runner ups, and an archive of past competitions.
I'm sure that the greater visibility of the competition would help somewhat with the participation problems!

[Gus]

I would guess the bigger issue is the winners or even other designs would be used for free by some effect company a startup etc.  No money for the design and no credit.  What is in it for a "designer"?

I no longer post any of my newer microphone or effect designs.  I have a number of them and there not another FF or TS or ...

There seems to be little respect for IP on the web.

[.Mike]

Perhaps there could be two side by side competitions? An artistic and a design one? You wouldn't even have to set anything up for it really. Actually you could just make it so that people who post in the pictures thread automatically enter (unless they dont want to) and every month people vote on who posted the most creative/artistic/well designed pedal that month... Though it is kind of unelegant, and may cause problems due to way too many pedals to vote on (i estimated by half-counting that there are 100 pedals posted every month  ). Hmmm, maybe not. But an artistic themed competition in addition to the design competition would be a great other-side to FX-X that may attract many of the less electronics-savvy members.

I suggested something similar in May of last year. Do an annual "best of" awards, where the award is actually nothing except pride and bragging rights. Let members nominate builds from the picture thread-- most creative, best build, etc.-- and also nominate members-- most helpful, rookie of the year, most improved builds, etc. Only positive awards, no award for ugliest build or worst attitude or anything like that. Once the nominations end, people can vote on whatever is best, and maybe the winners get a little winner graphic to stick in their signature.

We do something similar at my site, and it's a great community builder. Unfortunately, it didn't go anywhere. Probably got lost in the shuffle...

Mike

[FlyingZ]

I have a number of them and there not another FF or TS or ...

The bad news is until a new component is invented ALL distortions are clones. Different caps does not an original make  

[Top Top]

no award for ugliest build or worst attitude or anything like that

Well there go my chances  

I have a number of them and there not another FF or TS or ...

The bad news is until a new component is invented ALL distortions are clones. Different caps does not an original make  

I don't entirely agree with this - there are new/different ways of approaching things, and it can be a lot of hard work to design and tune something to work well. I can see Gus's concern. I have considered starting to sell some fx and have been hesitant to post schems because I see how people will rip off other peoples' designs... I wouldn't mind DIY builders building them for themselves of course (why else post it?), but there has been obvious cases of even big manufacturers using designs developed by people on the web and making commercial products out of them.

[Gus]

FlyingZ

I am not worried about this stuff.  I am just not going to share on the web.  I have talked and emailed to a number of people over the years that post on this and other sites.

It is not just changing caps.

Don't forget the whammy that was different.  DSP circuits are different.

Some of us have seen the growth of effect companies since the mid/late 90s that seems to correspond with the web.  There has been some silly drama over simple circuits like the BMP. and jfet amps and..........

[JKowalski]

Maybe I'm just running around in the perfect little world inside my head but I totally looked over that concern. I've never really had much aspiration to... well, to make any money. So it didn't occur to me.

It's a real shame that a community of people with common interests and knowledge can't work together anymore (if they ever did?) to develop technology/art... /stompboxes  outside the safety of legal contracts and waivers. Don't get me wrong, I'm not directing any anger or scorn at the people (like Gus) who are being protective of the intellectual property, you don't have to defend yourself... After all, if someone comes at you with a knife, would you stand there or do something about it? Just society in general. Community spirit and capitalism are enemies, I guess.

ANYWAYS.

FX-X is highly susceptible to theft but at least the artistic competition mentioned is not. I still think that's a good addition to be made! FX-X has had it's moments so far... maybe there's nothing we can do to get over the problems inherent in sharing new ideas over the web, but I still don't think it should die out! People who want their designs respected do not have to contend, and maybe we can make do with the people who are willing to risk it. I still stand by my last opinion, that FX-X should continue in both a design and artistic form, with the prize being a nice big picture on the home page and the pride that it  inspires  

[Gus]

JKowalski

It is not always about money.  Sometimes is is just about giving credit.  I posted to bring up this aspect.

There was the national semiconductor app that became a drama
http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-32.pdf  page 5

http://archive.ampage.org/threads/1/fxsb/059281/Re_Creamy_Dreamer-1.html drama

[drk]

What about instead of been a single person competition, we make a group one? This way the entries can be finished with less work by each person(this assuming everyone works..), and the overall quality can be increased.

Also it would promote the dialog between members, the exchange of ideas, etc.

[JKowalski]

JKowalski

It is not always about money.  Sometimes is is just about giving credit.  I posted to bring up this aspect.

There was the national semiconductor app that became a drama
http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-32.pdf  page 5

http://archive.ampage.org/threads/1/fxsb/059281/Re_Creamy_Dreamer-1.html drama

I don't see the problem with using app notes to help in building something, that's what they are for (and he even claims he always left that association public)

But I know what you mean completely. Working hard on something and seeing someone else take the credit is a terrible feeling.

Anyways, it's not required to post.

[The Tone God]

Ok a few things to cover.

The nice thing about having the community vote is what makes a "good" entry is really up to the voter so there is no voting criteria that is enforced other then to make sure the entry meets the theme.

We have tried artistic themes but they have not faired well at all so for right now I don't think there will be artistic themes. You can still enter an artistic build if you are going for a unique build approach to the theme.

A schematic is not required. A sound sample is enough or a pic of the build. Of course then you may have to convince people that the entry conforms to the theme if need be to get votes.

Builds do not have to be original designs. I choose to do original designs with a schematic but thats just what I like to do. It shouldn't set the tone or restrict people in what they do for entries.

There is nothing stopping groups from designing together. It has happening in the past. These groups can be commercial or private as well.

One thing I have noticed is that people don't talk about their builds until they enter. Hes an idea, what about requiring people to announce what they are going to build before they enter it ?

Andrew

[drk]

yea, there could be some sort of 'registration' period on the competition, this way you would know how many people participate.