NEW PRODUCT: Taptation Tap Tempo controller

[Gaetano Capuano]

There is a pcb for it here.    http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/2851536

[vamp]

HELLO.....

I'NEED PTAP VERSION 2 LAYOUT TO CONTROL TWO PT2399 SIMULTANEOUSLY.....

SOMEONE HAVE IT?

THANK'S FOR SUPPORT............

[Levispeights]

There is a pcb for it here.    http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/2851536

Is C3 on the layout at http://www.guitarpcb.com/apps/webstore/products/show/2851536 needed? Isn't it redundant because you already have C1? Or do you need both caps for filtering? Thanks

[Beo]

I think what he means is that you can't just hook the output of one up to the tempo input of the other. If you do this the second one won't change tempo because it needs a gap between pulses of at least the maximum tempo time before it changes (from page 5 of the data sheet).
What you need to do is wait until the first one has changed to the new tempo, then send a couple of pulses from it to the second one. Shouldn't be too hard to do this, I'll have a think about it.

Resurrecting an old question. Did anyone ever find a good solution to syncing two taptation controllers (parallel delays), so that switching tempo selection doesn't throw them off? Maybe having to re-tap after any tempo selection changes is not that big a deal...

[Beo]

Second question: Tap disable. I'd like to use a toggle switch to disable the tap input and force the taptation to read from the Time pot. Switching from tap to manual should disable the tap input and trigger the taptation controller to read Time from the pot (with out having to jiggle the knob). Could a DPDT be used, where one side would disconnect the tap input while the other side just momentarily open circuit the connection to the Time pot?

The other way would be to not have the Time pot connected to the Taptation, but instead switch in after the digital pot. But I would like to keep the Tempo LED from the Taptation when reading from the Time pot.

[Beo]

Third question... hope someone notices and replies 

I have two taptation circuits now, that I want to test. I have them wired up on breadboard per the application note, including modulation, but not yet connected to a PT2399 delay. Eventually I want to experiment with synchronization between them.

However, I can't seem to get the tempo scale right, and I'm wondering if there is an error in the documentation. I get 1/1 divisions (quarter notes) with Double Time (pin12) open, and Tempo Scale Input (pin 13) VCC. The documentation says that this should be 1/2 tempo (eighth notes). By this I mean I have both LEDs flashing in unison when I set pin 13 to VCC. If I set it to Ground, I get 1/2 tempo divisions (the tempo scale pin 5 flashes twice for each tempo clock pin 3).

I'm tapping by touching wire to ground. Pin 4, pulse input, is left open.

Thanks for any help.
Travis

[The Tone God]

Second question: Tap disable. I'd like to use a toggle switch to disable the tap input and force the taptation to read from the Time pot. Switching from tap to manual should disable the tap input and trigger the taptation controller to read Time from the pot (with out having to jiggle the knob). Could a DPDT be used, where one side would disconnect the tap input while the other side just momentarily open circuit the connection to the Time pot?

The other way would be to not have the Time pot connected to the Taptation, but instead switch in after the digital pot. But I would like to keep the Tempo LED from the Taptation when reading from the Time pot.

Switching from tap to manual can only be done currently by changing the time pot. One idea could be put a momentary switch that grounds the time pot input causing the TapTation to switch to manual mode then when you release the switch the pot is read and the time set according. There is no need then to disconnect the tap input. The only time the tap input affects the delay time setting is when the input is grounded atleast twice within the maximum time. Otherwise you can leave it alone.

However, I can't seem to get the tempo scale right, and I'm wondering if there is an error in the documentation. I get 1/1 divisions (quarter notes) with Double Time (pin12) open, and Tempo Scale Input (pin 13) VCC. The documentation says that this should be 1/2 tempo (eighth notes). By this I mean I have both LEDs flashing in unison when I set pin 13 to VCC. If I set it to Ground, I get 1/2 tempo divisions (the tempo scale pin 5 flashes twice for each tempo clock pin 3).

There is nothing wrong in the documentation atleast at that level of error otherwise it would have been brought up already and corrected.

You do know that pin 13 is for the time pot and not scale input ?

Andrew

[Beo]

There is nothing wrong in the documentation atleast at that level of error otherwise it would have been brought up already and corrected.

You do know that pin 13 is for the time pot and not scale input ?

Andrew

Thanks Andrew. Yeah, I meant pins 12 and 11 for Tempo Scale and Double Time respectively. I think I'm wired up correct, but I only get 1/1 tempo division by putting VCC on pin 12. I'll debug. Thanks for the response.

[Beo]

Thanks Andrew. Yeah, I meant pins 12 and 11 for Tempo Scale and Double Time respectively. I think I'm wired up correct, but I only get 1/1 tempo division by putting VCC on pin 12. I'll debug. Thanks for the response.

Okay, so I have two taptation circuits breadboarded side by side. Both are behaving exactly the same. I'm using a 5v regulator for VCC. Tempo Scale Input correctly has a 100K pull-down resistor, and the voltages switch from 5v, 1.25V and 0V. I get three different tempos from these three settings. Doubletime to ground correctly doubles each setting.

With doubletime unconnected:
Tempo Scale to 0V gives me 1/2 (two Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)
Tempo Scale to 5V gives me 1/1 (Scaled LED and tempo LED synced)

With doubletime grounded:
Tempo Scale to 0V gives me 1/4 (four Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)
Tempo Scale to 5V gives me 1/2 (two Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)

With Temp Scale to 1.25V using 100K pulldown, it looks like 3/4 and 3/8 to me without and with doubletime. This is per the document.

So, how could Tempo scale work backwards between 0V and 5V?

[Johnny B]

Has anyone used the Taptation tap tempo controller to build a tap tempo analog delay?

[Beo]

Resurrecting an old question. Did anyone ever find a good solution to syncing two taptation controllers (parallel delays), so that switching tempo selection doesn't throw them off? Maybe having to re-tap after any tempo selection changes is not that big a deal...

So I've been testing this a bit. One thing I noticed was that when tapping one taptation circuit I could sometimes trigger the other taptation to resync to the Time pot. I put each taptation onto its own 5V regulator and that cleaned up whatever voltage drop that was triggering the other circuit. The final circuit design, adding in the PT2399 and modulation circuits, will need to be pretty clean for power and ground for consistent operation.

For syncing, it's clear there's no way with the current code to do a continuous cross-sync. When the taptation receives a new tap input, it looks like it affects the tempo clock right away and starts its new tempo once the input time window is done. So a continuous or periodic sync signal would be disruptive. Also, changing and resetting the tempo scale or double time causes the tempo to go out of phase, depending on exactly when you toggle the switches... but the tempo frequency is maintained. I found that using a single tap input to both taptations reliably gave a syncrhonized response, assuming you don't switch the tempo scale or double time.

I'm okay with this... just means that I'll have to retap anytime I change the tempo scale or double time. Here's what I'd like to do next:
1. A frequency/phase comparator so that I can compare the two taptation tempo outputs and light an LED when they are In Sync / In Phase
(I think there might be a number of ways to do this)
2. A Scaled Tempo period digital display in msec.
(I'm wondering if there is a prebuilt LCD circuit for this that would be easy to hook up)
(Update: I see lots of frequency counter display kits out there, but looks like I'd have to program my own PIC to get a Time Period display in msec.)

Any ideas or suggestions on these two ideas?

I'm also planning to compare the Echobase vs Taptation modulation, and decide if I want both (switchable, or one of each on the two delay circuits). I'm also planning to play with series vs parallel for the polyrythmic settings. If I like both, not sure if I'll use a toggle switch or switching jacks to give both options.

Here's what my breadboard looks like right now:

[Barcode80]

Thanks Andrew. Yeah, I meant pins 12 and 11 for Tempo Scale and Double Time respectively. I think I'm wired up correct, but I only get 1/1 tempo division by putting VCC on pin 12. I'll debug. Thanks for the response.

Okay, so I have two taptation circuits breadboarded side by side. Both are behaving exactly the same. I'm using a 5v regulator for VCC. Tempo Scale Input correctly has a 100K pull-down resistor, and the voltages switch from 5v, 1.25V and 0V. I get three different tempos from these three settings. Doubletime to ground correctly doubles each setting.

With doubletime unconnected:
Tempo Scale to 0V gives me 1/2 (two Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)
Tempo Scale to 5V gives me 1/1 (Scaled LED and tempo LED synced)

With doubletime grounded:
Tempo Scale to 0V gives me 1/4 (four Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)
Tempo Scale to 5V gives me 1/2 (two Scaled LED flashes for each tempo LED flash)

With Temp Scale to 1.25V using 100K pulldown, it looks like 3/4 and 3/8 to me without and with doubletime. This is per the document.

So, how could Tempo scale work backwards between 0V and 5V?

I brought this up earlier, no one seemed to notice:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=86294.msg777211#msg777211

[norim_13]

Hi!
Since it was the last one posted, I am going to follow this layout:



Some questions about it:
1 - What's the component labeled "PWM Cycle Speed"?
2 - The "Tempo Scale Input" switch let's me choose between what options?
3 - I am going to biuld an Echo Base, and then add this circuit to it. Both have modulation, which one should I use?

Best regards

[au_loki]

Hellooooooo
The layout is good but just watch the off-board wiring as the GND goes off-board & back on again (you can put another jumper in if you want)
If you check out the Application notes from the link on the first page your questions 1 & 2 will be answered.
For the Echo Base make the other vero layout (without the modulation - back a few pages) & use the on board Echo Base modulation.

All the best au_loki

[Jdansti]

Hi!
Since it was the last one posted, I am going to follow this layout:



Some questions about it:
1 - What's the component labeled "PWM Cycle Speed"?
2 - The "Tempo Scale Input" switch let's me choose between what options?
3 - I am going to biuld an Echo Base, and then add this circuit to it. Both have modulation, which one should I use?

Best regards

The blue rectangles are switches. I'm not an expert on this, so you might want to read this doc: http://www.thetonegod.com/tech/datasheets/taptation.pdf

1 - What's the component labeled "PWM Cycle Speed"? See page 8 of the above doc.
2 - The "Tempo Scale Input" switch let's me choose between what options?  See page 7 of the above doc.
3 - I am going to biuld an Echo Base, and then add this circuit to it. Both have modulation, which one should I use? Maybe someone more knowledgable than I can answer this.

Have fun with it!

[Levispeights]

Ok Guys, I have a weird problem. I have built 2 pt-80 delays using the Taptation and I have the same problem with both of them. First let me say that everything is working perfect EXCEPT... when I use the tap tempo switch (I'm using a Carling 110-PM-OFF Momentary Stomp from smallbear) I get a huge POP sound and the output volume of my delay drops with a bunch of hiss. It will stay like this until I click the bypass switch (3pdt) 3 or 4 times and everything will work great again until I try to use the tap-tempo switch again.

I tried increasing the 0.1uf cap on the debounce network that connects to the tap-tempo switch to a 1uf and that helped a little bit on one pedal but not on the other. On the one it helped (sort of) instead of getting the POP on the first push of the tap tempo switch, I now get the POP on the 5th or 6th tap. 

I am at my wits end. I really think it has something to do with the debounce network but I just don't know. HELP!! Thanks in advance.

[Levispeights]

bump.

[The Tone God]

Ok Guys, I have a weird problem. I have built 2 pt-80 delays using the Taptation and I have the same problem with both of them. First let me say that everything is working perfect EXCEPT... when I use the tap tempo switch (I'm using a Carling 110-PM-OFF Momentary Stomp from smallbear) I get a huge POP sound and the output volume of my delay drops with a bunch of hiss. It will stay like this until I click the bypass switch (3pdt) 3 or 4 times and everything will work great again until I try to use the tap-tempo switch again.

I tried increasing the 0.1uf cap on the debounce network that connects to the tap-tempo switch to a 1uf and that helped a little bit on one pedal but not on the other. On the one it helped (sort of) instead of getting the POP on the first push of the tap tempo switch, I now get the POP on the 5th or 6th tap.

Sorry for the slow reply.

There is defintely not normal. The switch should have not effect on the audio. Are you connecting the 100K pull up to the 9V supply and not the 5V supply ? Are you sure that you are not shorting out the power supply some how ? Maybe your 100K pull up is not really 100K ? Measure the 100K to make sure it is 100K. After that measure the voltages on both sides of the 100K with switch depressed and not depressed.

Andrew

[Levispeights]

Ok Guys, I have a weird problem. I have built 2 pt-80 delays using the Taptation and I have the same problem with both of them. First let me say that everything is working perfect EXCEPT... when I use the tap tempo switch (I'm using a Carling 110-PM-OFF Momentary Stomp from smallbear) I get a huge POP sound and the output volume of my delay drops with a bunch of hiss. It will stay like this until I click the bypass switch (3pdt) 3 or 4 times and everything will work great again until I try to use the tap-tempo switch again.

I tried increasing the 0.1uf cap on the debounce network that connects to the tap-tempo switch to a 1uf and that helped a little bit on one pedal but not on the other. On the one it helped (sort of) instead of getting the POP on the first push of the tap tempo switch, I now get the POP on the 5th or 6th tap.

Sorry for the slow reply.

There is defintely not normal. The switch should have not effect on the audio. Are you connecting the 100K pull up to the 9V supply and not the 5V supply ? Are you sure that you are not shorting out the power supply some how ? Maybe your 100K pull up is not really 100K ? Measure the 100K to make sure it is 100K. After that measure the voltages on both sides of the 100K with switch depressed and not depressed.

Andrew

Hey Andrew, Thanks for the reply! I know your busy and I don't mean to take up your time.
The 100k is coming off of the 5v and I tripple checked that it is indeed 100k. The voltage on the switch side of the 100k goes from 4.89v when not pressed to 0.00v when pressed. And the voltage on the other side of the 100K is a constant 5.02v whether the switch is pressed or not. Weird eh?

Here is my layout. It's a highly modified pt80 layout from GGG that incorporates the Taptation. https://www.dropbox.com/s/krwf1mrshyb29fk/PT80wTap.jpg
See anything that doesn't look right?

[Levispeights]

Ok Guys, I have a weird problem. I have built 2 pt-80 delays using the Taptation and I have the same problem with both of them. First let me say that everything is working perfect EXCEPT... when I use the tap tempo switch (I'm using a Carling 110-PM-OFF Momentary Stomp from smallbear) I get a huge POP sound and the output volume of my delay drops with a bunch of hiss. It will stay like this until I click the bypass switch (3pdt) 3 or 4 times and everything will work great again until I try to use the tap-tempo switch again.

I tried increasing the 0.1uf cap on the debounce network that connects to the tap-tempo switch to a 1uf and that helped a little bit on one pedal but not on the other. On the one it helped (sort of) instead of getting the POP on the first push of the tap tempo switch, I now get the POP on the 5th or 6th tap.

Sorry for the slow reply.

There is defintely not normal. The switch should have not effect on the audio. Are you connecting the 100K pull up to the 9V supply and not the 5V supply ? Are you sure that you are not shorting out the power supply some how ? Maybe your 100K pull up is not really 100K ? Measure the 100K to make sure it is 100K. After that measure the voltages on both sides of the 100K with switch depressed and not depressed.

Andrew

Hey Andrew, Thanks for the reply! I know your busy and I don't mean to take up your time.
The 100k is coming off of the 5v and I tripple checked that it is indeed 100k. The voltage on the switch side of the 100k goes from 4.89v when not pressed to 0.00v when pressed. And the voltage on the other side of the 100K is a constant 5.02v whether the switch is pressed or not. Weird eh?

Here is my layout. It's a highly modified pt80 layout from GGG that incorporates the Taptation. https://www.dropbox.com/s/krwf1mrshyb29fk/PT80wTap.jpg
See anything that doesn't look right?

Alright, I think I fixed the problem. All I did is move the 0.1uf on the debounce network from my board and attached it right across the lugs of the tap tempo switch. I'm not sure how this fixed it as the 0.1uf is still going from 5v to ground but it did. Thanks anyway! The Taptation is great!