Which is the real / more authentic version of the Vox Tone Bender?

[LucifersTrip]

[ignore the 2N3906. The schematic states Q1=SFT363, Q2 = SFT337]
http://www.schematicheaven.com/effects/vox_tonebender_fuzz.pdf

or



or another?


thanx

[R.G.]

They differ only in three capacitor values.

Buy one set of both cap values and switch them to see which you like.

Something being real or vintage is no help if you don't like it. There was vintage junk, too. Being real or vintage is no guarantee of quality.

In addition, there is a real possibility that BOTH schematics might be real/vintage. Manufacturers changed their designs back then too. And EH is practically notorious for making effects out of whatever surplus parts they could get that were anywhere close to the design. Real? Vintage? Original?

[tubelectron]

Hi LucifersTrip,

The Tone-Benders schematic you show here are the 2-transistor version, like the one made by JEN for VOX. These are not very different from the Fuzz-Face circuit (see Mr R.G. Keen "the technology of the fuzz face" well-known reference article) and are worth to be tried, but...

I suggest you to have a trial with the Tone Bender MK2 professional - a 3 transistor version. With some light modifications, I feel it is very good sounding device. The circuit is simple (and easy to find). I built it point-to-point with 3 x OC72 PNP Ge transistors (NOS, Hfe=50-60 for Ib=10µA, Ice0=100-150µA), but AC128 (or other Ge) in the same range should be convenient.

It reacts very well with the volume pot of the guitar. You go from sublte to thick overdrive, but it stay smooth, with no fizz, and give an excellent sustain and decay. Think of a good Fuzz Face with more drive and less muddiness, to have an idea.

Tip : fix the "attack" control with a 470 ohms resistor (or tweak around this value for a best match to your transistors) instead of the 1K pot, and insert a serial 500K-RA pot (wired in varaible resistor) for overdrive control between the 1st and 2nd transistor, just before the coupling cap. This modified "attack" control is much more progressive and consistent than the original, and moreover have the vertue to neatly improve the S/N ratio on low "attack" settings.

Here are some pics of my Double Tone Bender : a switchable MKII pro / MKIII DIY version :





But trust me : the MKII pro is the best-sounding between the two...

A+!

[FlyingZ]

Very nice build!

[diemilchmann]

They that first one is mine 

lol jk. and thats actually not for germanium, if youre doing it with germanium, lose the pot on Q1

[LucifersTrip]

They differ only in three capacitor values.

...and the trannies are reversed and there is a 10-fold difference between the 820ohm / 8.2k resistors

Buy one set of both cap values and switch them to see which you like.

Something being real or vintage is no help if you don't like it. There was vintage junk, too. Being real or vintage is no guarantee of quality.

In addition, there is a real possibility that BOTH schematics might be real/vintage. Manufacturers changed their designs back then too. And EH is practically notorious for making effects out of whatever surplus parts they could get that were anywhere close to the design. Real? Vintage? Original?

Maybe I should have asked my question differently.  Which is the earliest version of the Vox Tone Bender schematic?
...I always tweak everything till I get it the way I like. I just like using what is supposed to be the real sound as a starting point.
I found schematic #2 first, so that was the one I built [I get distortion with no fuzz], then I saw schematic #1 recently, which is why I asked the question. Maybe #2 will be closer to the right fuzz sound before I start tweaking to my liking.

[LucifersTrip]

Hi LucifersTrip,

The Tone-Benders schematic you show here are the 2-transistor version, like the one made by JEN for VOX. These are not very different from the Fuzz-Face circuit (see Mr R.G. Keen "the technology of the fuzz face" well-known reference article) and are worth to be tried, but...

Yes, very similar to the FF. I wanted to hear subtle differences between them. I read most of that article and many other articles detailing
the FF design. That reminds me...R.G. had another version of the schematic [from May 1967?]

This one adds a 2nd resistor off Q2 collector, lowers the output cap and adds another resistor in parallel with a much larger output control

I suggest you to have a trial with the Tone Bender MK2 professional - a 3 transistor version. With some light modifications, I feel it is very good sounding device. The circuit is simple (and easy to find). I built it point-to-point with 3 x OC72 PNP Ge transistors (NOS, Hfe=50-60 for Ib=10µA, Ice0=100-150µA), but AC128 (or other Ge) in the same range should be convenient.

It reacts very well with the volume pot of the guitar. You go from sublte to thick overdrive, but it stay smooth, with no fizz, and give an excellent sustain and decay. Think of a good Fuzz Face with more drive and less muddiness, to have an idea.

Tip : fix the "attack" control with a 470 ohms resistor (or tweak around this value for a best match to your transistors) instead of the 1K pot, and insert a serial 500K-RA pot (wired in varaible resistor) for overdrive control between the 1st and 2nd transistor, just before the coupling cap. This modified "attack" control is much more progressive and consistent than the original, and moreover have the vertue to neatly improve the S/N ratio on low "attack" settings.

Here are some pics of my Double Tone Bender : a switchable MKII pro / MKIII DIY version :

But trust me : the MKII pro is the best-sounding between the two...

A+!

Thanx much for all the info. I may try the 3 - tran version in the future. I'll keep your recommendations in a file...

[LucifersTrip]

They that first one is mine 

Yes, thanx... I had another link to the same one, but the image did not display on this forum...maybe blocked?

lol jk. and thats actually not for germanium, if youre doing it with germanium, lose the pot on Q1

thanx

[LucifersTrip]

for reference:

1


2


3

[tubelectron]

Hi again

Maybe I should have asked my question differently.  Which is the earliest version of the Vox Tone Bender schematic?

Here is a very interesting article about a "little history of Tone Benders" :

http://www.stompboxes.co.uk/gpage1.html2.html

In these 2 chapters, you will find helping guidelines about the VOX Tone-Benders :

"As rare as hen's teeth, the Vox Professional MKII "

"The Italian Job, the Vox Tone Bender"

A+!

[petemoore]

  Vintage was 1964, but it's old now, surely recieved different reviews at the time than now.
  Authentic as in aged transistor or original as it was in 1964?, the transistor age..we're still in it, still testing them !
  ahl what? All froze real hard and the GE's sounded better after thawing.
  Haven't heard one I built from similar schematic that I didn't like, once the 'right' transistors were installed correctly and it was given voices...it works great with TeleSC's or HB's..was benched for a long time though, I didn't actually know how to use it, I made 'it' too complicated with other pedals and settings. Other D pedals were more forgiving at the time.
  The distortion ''engine'' in the MkII can generate more than plenty of power, tuning it in to 'grip this track' [y-guitar and x-amp] is the [not terribly] tricky part. Remember the guitar/pickups and amps can be made a lot different and it matters.
  Not to oversimplify, but it really doesn't need to be super complicated, the R bias will need readjusted [unless preset with selected/tested Q's] for every Q swap. For me a lot of it was getting a guitar that roll's volume of the way I find works with this pedal, FF, taper of the guitar pot, mods to it.
 
 
 

[LucifersTrip]

Hi again

Maybe I should have asked my question differently.  Which is the earliest version of the Vox Tone Bender schematic?

Here is a very interesting article about a "little history of Tone Benders" :

http://www.stompboxes.co.uk/gpage1.html2.html

In these 2 chapters, you will find helping guidelines about the VOX Tone-Benders :

"As rare as hen's teeth, the Vox Professional MKII "

"The Italian Job, the Vox Tone Bender"

A+!

Funny, I skimmed that article a while ago when I was looking for schematics. I will read it more thoroughly now.

Well, I guess the earliest is the 3 tran Sola Sounds Tone Bender MKI


[author said "The 470k should be 180K"]

http://dam.10.forumer.com/a/posts.php?topic=744&start=0

Thanx again for the info

[tubelectron]

Hi LucifersTrip,

Thanks for the additional link - very interesting indeed, as I hadn't a "real" schem of the TB MK1, but only it's cousin the "original Zonk Machine".

Yes, it seems that the TB MK1 as described here is the 1st one, may be the "Hammerite blue-painted box prototype presumably designed by Dick Denney in 1964/65 from a Maestro Fuzz-Tone" (?). It differs somewhat from the MK2 professional, which is more simple.
I will try to find the time to make a trial...

A+!

[Finom1]

Very nice build!

Just a fantastic pedal, great design. Does anyone have any information on the process for this build. I would like to build a father & son project this summer.
Thank you.

[zombiwoof]

My understanding is that the first version (Mk. I) was made in the UK and was similar to a fuzz face, the Mk. I.5 was the Jen Italian one (The "Beatles" version) that was also marketed under the Vox brand, which moved away from the FF circuit and used the SFT trannies.  Mk II was the next, 3-trannie, 3-knob  version (Page, Beck, etc.), and the Mk. III hich had longer sustain.  I think there may have also been a Mk. IV but I don't know much about that.  There were variations in circuits and transistors used in each, and each had a slightly different sound.  I had a gray hammertone Vox Italian one when I was younger that had a fat, warm sound that I loved, but I stupidly sold it later when fuzz had become out of fashion in favor of the new, more amp-like overdrive pedals like the Distortion+ and TS pedals.  I could kick myself when I now see those Vox TB's going for $600-700.  You need to decide which sound you want to go for and build that version.

Al

[Electric Warrior]

No, The MKI was made in the UK and was based on a Maestro FZ-1.

The MK1.5 is the pedal the Arbiter Fuzz Face was based on. They're using different transistors and a bias resistor is slightly different in the Fuzz Face, so they're usually not biased quite as hot as the MK1.5, but there is overlap. Pretty much the same thing, though most MK1.5s don't have the huge low end the Fuzz Face has, as Arbiter seems to have copied an early unit that had a 500k volume pot instead of the usual 100k.

The MKII (aka Marshall Supa Fuzz) is a MK1.5 with an additional stage in front. It's more stable than the latter and has better range on the Attack knob. It's a two knob pedal.

The italian made Vox Tone Bender is based on the same topology as the MK1.5/Fuzz Face, but biased differently. There are a couple of variations (mostly of the caps and volume pot). The later ones can be rather thin sounding. The earliest grey ones are fuller sounding.

The MKIII and MKIV are the same circuit in different enclosures; they usually have three knobs, but some Park branded pedals have only two knobs.

[allesz]

The 8,2 K at q2 emitter in schemo uno seems quite odd to me: it could be a mistake during the tracing, the drawing of the schem... or a mistake of the builder. I wonder how will sound a circuit built that way.

The difference between input and output caps should be investigated, perhaps with some pics of actual units.
Analogguru was a great resource in cases like this.

Btw I always trust fuzzcentral, but maybe only because I like the graphic style of schem/site.

@Lucifero: you say you got only distortion, but who are you to tell distortion from fuzz? ;-)
The caps and that 47k resistor biasing q1base will give a different sound from a ff for sure.

[Finom1]

Very nice build!

Double Tone Bender , could you provide were to start with your build? Parts list ans schematics?
Thank you.

[zombiwoof]

Thanks for the clarification, the grey hammertone Vox I used to have had a nice, warm, fat sound, so it must have been the early version.  I have searched for a clone of that pedal that is not as expensive as the originals are now, but have not found it yet.
Al

No, The MKI was made in the UK and was based on a Maestro FZ-1.

The MK1.5 is the pedal the Arbiter Fuzz Face was based on. They're using different transistors and a bias resistor is slightly different in the Fuzz Face, so they're usually not biased quite as hot as the MK1.5, but there is overlap. Pretty much the same thing, though most MK1.5s don't have the huge low end the Fuzz Face has, as Arbiter seems to have copied an early unit that had a 500k volume pot instead of the usual 100k.

The MKII (aka Marshall Supa Fuzz) is a MK1.5 with an additional stage in front. It's more stable than the latter and has better range on the Attack knob. It's a two knob pedal.

The italian made Vox Tone Bender is based on the same topology as the MK1.5/Fuzz Face, but biased differently. There are a couple of variations (mostly of the caps and volume pot). The later ones can be rather thin sounding. The earliest grey ones are fuller sounding.

The MKIII and MKIV are the same circuit in different enclosures; they usually have three knobs, but some Park branded pedals have only two knobs.

[strassercaster]

Hi LucifersTrip,

Thanks for the additional link - very interesting indeed, as I hadn't a "real" schem of the TB MK1, but only it's cousin the "original Zonk Machine".

Yes, it seems that the TB MK1 as described here is the 1st one, may be the "Hammerite blue-painted box prototype presumably designed by Dick Denney in 1964/65 from a Maestro Fuzz-Tone" (?). It differs somewhat from the MK2 professional, which is more simple.
I will try to find the time to make a trial...
I have made about 4 of these. The stock input and output caps really cut the low end out of the guitar. I made my input cap .22 and my output caps.015 this helped a lot. You will find its much better. This the fuzz face and the tonebender mk1.5 could all be built on the same readymade pcb just subtle differences . My favorite is a combination of the three. I used the pots from the vox tonebender and switchable input output caps. I think the next one I will do a blend pot for the input cap .
A+!