Schumann Pedals

[Paul Marossy]

i just don't understand why/how they look so great on the outside and like garbage on the inside...  

It doesn't really matter as long as it works properly. Oddly enough, a mess like that can often be relatively trouble free compared to something where every wire is perfect but a bunch of them are running in parallel, very close to eachother. My first pedals often looked like that (a mess), but they usually all worked without squealing. YMMV.

[CynicalMan]

i just don't understand why/how they look so great on the outside and like garbage on the inside...  

It doesn't really matter as long as it works properly. Oddly enough, a mess like that can often be relatively trouble free compared to something where every wire is perfect but a bunch of them are running in parallel, very close to eachother. My first pedals often looked like that (a mess), but they usually all worked without squealing. YMMV.

I agree, but I don't envy the repair guy who has one of these come in. 

As well as having sloppy wiring, they require bipolar supplies, thay have way too much electrical tape and other easily broken insulators, and a lot of the soldering seems sloppy.


The lion x seems to have a 4049UBE and an LF353 on the main board plus at least two other boards and other parts soldered to the jacks, switches, etc. It wouldn't be hard just to take the 4049 distortion of your choice and then just add the filtering and clean blending.

[Pigyboy]

There is a quote on another forum of a guy who bought a used Schumann pedal and contacted John Schumann to repair it and mod another pedal. They agreed to $200 up front and the guy never saw his money or pedals again. Then there are rumors of new gear to be offered too.  It would be great to really find out what is in one and how much of it is b.s. and what is real. I heard he basically was shoving synth circuits into boxes for guitar players.

[soggybag]

The idea of building "booby trap" circuits into a pedal has to be the dumbest thing I have seen yet. What a waste of time and energy. No wonder his business is not doing so well. As pointed out earlier repairs must be nightmare. Not mention assembly.

That said I really dig the knobs. The style of the boxes have a cool military retro look. The knobs back this up.

[tubelectron]

Hi,

This wiring technique is acceptable but it needs a lot of "rationalization" of the wire routing for maintenance purposes...  Or maybe it's a "wiring trap", as some suggest, but I would be somewhat surprised... I saw something similar on some MG pedals that I had in hands (Sexy Drive, Thé Drive), which works very well but are built like an "englued château de cartes", so are painful to service... Probably like the innards of the Schumann's releases !

A+!

[valdiorn]

Seriously, do NOT want!

[Ice-9]

I would be vexxed if i got a pedal wired like that if it was free, but if i paid for it i would be seriously unhappy.

[caress]

i just don't understand why/how they look so great on the outside and like garbage on the inside...  

It doesn't really matter as long as it works properly. Oddly enough, a mess like that can often be relatively trouble free compared to something where every wire is perfect but a bunch of them are running in parallel, very close to eachother. My first pedals often looked like that (a mess), but they usually all worked without squealing. YMMV.

i disagree.  it's not terribly difficult to lay something out halfway decently...  especially when it seems there was obviously time spent on the enclosure layout, graphics, etc.
it would suck to service that, even for the builder.

[DougH]

hahaha...I don't think that's "our" slade

Slade
President & CEO
Schumann Electronics

You mean the guy who built this?



Or this?

[brett]

Hi

The 2 face fuzz thing is probably a phase splitter with a separate fuzz face on each side of the wave, then recombined.

There are already simple fuzzes that do this.  From memory, the Fuzzrite is a phase (+different gain?) blender.  The old ETI fuzz also did phase blending (in a FF type circuit?).  I messed with these things for a while and found that you could get fantastic "devil's horns" and other waveforms on the oscilloscope.  Looked fantastic.  Sounded fairly poor because the harmonics are sharp/nasty and unmusical.  I'd say the Fuzzrite (with hFEs=150 to 200) is a good starting place for people interested in the phased "edgy fuzz" type of sound.
cheers

[petemoore]

  I had a few names for some fuzzface seriesed mod thing I had going, one was two-face, casually mentioned, there was large MINEY MINE over writing that in the middle of a long thread, wonder if it's the same origin...seemed rather rude and bohascious at the time, probably where the idea came from was my biased, not care enough to want to be selfish about it, opinion.
  If it's not the same guy, watch out there's someone that hates use of two-face name, even in threads. He'll come at you with the 'it's me or you and you are wrong' vibe.
  Kinda ruined the interest and the thread, I started calling it double face IRC.

[Taylor]

Not sure if I understand you exactly, but if some pedal builder is going around saying that he owns the name "Two Face", then I think he may want to have a chat with DC Comics' lawyers, as those DC guys have been ripping off this pedal builder's trademark for decades...

[Paul Marossy]

i disagree.  it's not terribly difficult to lay something out halfway decently...  especially when it seems there was obviously time spent on the enclosure layout, graphics, etc.
it would suck to service that, even for the builder.

Yeah, it could be better. But what matters to most end users is that it works - that it works reliably and doesn't give them problems (like squealing, etc.). Servicing that would definitely be a PITA. But then again, there's not much you could do with an epoxied PCB anyway. Maybe you could change the pots or something. That wouldn't be that hard to do.

I'm not advocating mangled wiring like that at all, just making a point that pretty doesn't = better. One boutique builder on another forum (who I shall keep anonymous) was wondering why one of his customs was squealing. I looked at the pretty wiring job in the picture he posted and saw the problem immediately. He had input and output wires bundled together and in parallel with long wires from gain pots and so on. That pretty wiring job was the cause of his problem(s). But it was pretty to look at. I however would rather have problem free reliability myself. If that means a little messy looking wiring, so be it.

Just making a point is all.

[soggybag]

I wouldn't be surprised if the whole "booby trapping" thing is what's causing the biggest problem with Schumann's business. Seems like adding all of this stuff increases your production time and cost without adding anything that a customer finds worth paying for. While the interior shots seem to scaring, people away, at least people on this forum.

I'll say it again, I love those knobs, where does he get them? Or is that a booby trapped trade secret also?

[Pigyboy]

Does no one out there own one of these things or know anyone who does?

[tubelectron]

Hi Paul,

One boutique builder on another forum (who I shall keep anonymous) was wondering why one of his customs was squealing. I looked at the pretty wiring job in the picture he posted and saw the problem immediately. He had input and output wires bundled together and in parallel with long wires from gain pots and so on. That pretty wiring job was the cause of his problem(s). But it was pretty to look at. I however would rather have problem free reliability myself. If that means a little messy looking wiring, so be it.

So it was not "pretty job" : this guy had to learn basic wiring techniques and experience... Anyone who have designed and worked on AF and RF tube design know thoses simple wiring rules, which are useful but not always compulsory when working on solid-state circuits.

IMHO, one of the pretty-est examples of wiring job is those of the HIWATT amps (DR103, SA112, etc...) from the Dave Reeves era : everything is neat, and you have the feeling that the chassis is empty...

But yes, I agree : "if it works, don't fix it" - and moreover, sometimes, messy wiring can contribute to sound performance.

A+!

[Taylor]

Does no one out there own one of these things or know anyone who does?

I don't think you're asking on the right forum. DIYSBers are not the type to pay upwards of $500 for a rat's nest. I know there's a guy on Talkbass.com who has all of the Schumann pedals including 2 PLLs.

But I don't think there's much that is all that special to be honest.  I guarantee that the PLL is based on the same couple of chips that make up the Harmony Generator. It's right there in the name. I built up a Harmony Generator with 7 simultaneous octaves (starting at 3 octaves down and going up to 3 octaves up) - this is like the boutique pedal that the PLL GASes for.  These pedals are cool, and especially they look nice on the outside, but they are mostly so sought-after because of their unobtainability, not because they have any ideas going on that don't already exist in DIY projects.

[Paul Marossy]

Hi Paul,

One boutique builder on another forum (who I shall keep anonymous) was wondering why one of his customs was squealing. I looked at the pretty wiring job in the picture he posted and saw the problem immediately. He had input and output wires bundled together and in parallel with long wires from gain pots and so on. That pretty wiring job was the cause of his problem(s). But it was pretty to look at. I however would rather have problem free reliability myself. If that means a little messy looking wiring, so be it.

So it was not "pretty job" : this guy had to learn basic wiring techniques and experience... Anyone who have designed and worked on AF and RF tube design know thoses simple wiring rules, which are useful but not always compulsory when working on solid-state circuits.

IMHO, one of the pretty-est examples of wiring job is those of the HIWATT amps (DR103, SA112, etc...) from the Dave Reeves era : everything is neat, and you have the feeling that the chassis is empty...

But yes, I agree : "if it works, don't fix it" - and moreover, sometimes, messy wiring can contribute to sound performance.

A+!

I see what you are saying. But in the example I pointed out the only consideration was making the wiring look pretty. That's what got him into trouble. And I was even more surprised that it was a boutique pedal builder asking such a basic question. If you see his pedals from the exterior, it's very obvious that the emphasis is on everything being pretty. Polished enclosures, shiny aluminum knobs, lettering etched or stamped into the surface of the enclosure, etc.

[DougH]

Here's my 2 cents, FWIW: Making stupidly exaggerated pretty wiring is just as bad as messy wiring. Except in the case of the Hiwatt guy, or someone trying purposely to throw people off the track with messiness (kind of a stupid idea anyway)- uber-neat or messy wiring generally reflects upon a novice-level knowledge of electronics and electrical wiring in general- at best. Real electronics manufacturers do what is necessary, no more and no less, for wiring. They follow a basic set of rules and keep it neat, but it's no fashion show or beauty contest. It's purely functional, something bootweakers have completely lost sight of, if they ever had sight of it to begin with.

My advice for these people is to graduate from kindergarten, grow up, learn something about the industry they are working in- tools of the trade, proper practices, basic electricity- and then try to be pragmatic. Won't make for kewl glossy innard photos on the gear page, but you will have a consistent, serviceable, and reliable product that makes its own reputation.

[Paul Marossy]

Here's my 2 cents, FWIW: Making stupidly exaggerated pretty wiring is just as bad as messy wiring. Except in the case of the Hiwatt guy, or someone trying purposely to throw people off the track with messiness (kind of a stupid idea anyway)- uber-neat or messy wiring generally reflects upon a novice-level knowledge of electronics and electrical wiring in general- at best. Real electronics manufacturers do what is necessary, no more and no less, for wiring. They follow a basic set of rules and keep it neat, but it's no fashion show or beauty contest. It's purely functional, something bootweakers have completely lost sight of, if they ever had sight of it to begin with.

Exactly!