How much pedals do you sell in a month as a pedal builder

[Paul Marossy]

A few years back I was thinking of building a small run of some designs of mine, then I started putting together a parts list spreadsheet. And I never got any farther than that... I just couldn't sit there, night in night out doing this kind of drudgery in my spare time. It was just soul-destroying for me... I never even got to the place of soldering 50 of the same things, which when I think about it would be bad enough. I quickly realized there was no way I was going to happily sit there and try to pump out XX widgets a month in my spare time, when I have a day job that I love and already does more than pay the bills. I think I realized the proverbial story of "Taking a hobby you love and turning it into a job you hate" was going to apply, to me.

Must be nice to have a job that you love. I have been back to work 32 hours/week for three months now and loathe what I do. I didn't like it that much before, but being away away from it from 16 months really underlines how much I hated it in the past. It doesn't help when you have to work twice as hard for 50% less than you did a couple of years ago, at the same company that laid you off. I was much happier when I was building for two boutique pedal companies. Anyway, I am still building for one of them indefinitely, but it sucks having to work two jobs. And it is boring having to build 30 or 40 of something at once. On the average I build about 30 pedals a month for them.

Think about this though, esp if you are considering selling on Ebay- Go to the Ebay guitar fx section and take a look at what's out there. How many new small mfrs weren't there last week? How many will still be there next week? Do you have something that's going to distinguish yourself from everyone else? Do you already have a name & reputation? Conversely, what will make people want to take a chance on you if you're unknown?

As an alternative I would consider selling to some local musicians in town and getting a rep "the old fashioned way-one sale at a time" and organically, before I worried about opening up shop on the innerwebz.

Yeah, that is what you are up against. A no name pedal builder vs. a known boutique builder. Even those well known boutique pedals don't sell sometimes. People will buy them, but ebay is not the marketplace that people think it is when it comes to that.

[DougH]

I have been back to work 32 hours/week for three months now and loathe what I do.

Unfortunately, most people in our society hate their jobs. But I think life is too short to spend it doing something you hate.

ebay is not the marketplace that people think it is when it comes to that.

I thought about what I was doing and realized there's nothing that distinguishes me or my stuff from anyone else('s). I could probably get some small word of mouth thing going locally if I wanted to, but I eventually realized for a variety of reasons I didn't really want to that bad. With anything you attempt, you have to have the passion first and really want it. Otherwise you're just lying to yourself.

I realize this is really personal and I don't mean to discourage anyone who is interested in this. If you have the passion for it, you should definitely do it. There's always a way. Just consider some of the realities and make sure you deal with them in your planning, that's my only point.

[Steve Mavronis]

Some parts finally got back in stock that I've had no luck finding the whole summer. I'm probably gonna order enough parts to build 4 copies of my clone pedal and see if they will sell. I had only basically 'given one away' back in May for its build cost in parts so far. For these hard to find pots that I'm using, I'll order extras just for any future projects and maybe build more clones if there is interest from my internet friends. This is just a side hobby for fun and enjoyment. I have no desire to get serious with any business aspects. But I am big on quality control and consistency of build as more of a pride thing. As far as how many per month so far my average works out to be 0.25 pedals, LOL.

[R.G.]

A better direction for this thread might be discussing the best method(s) of marketing and selling pedals, especially if you're just doing it on the side.

This comment is very insightful indeed.

I'll regurgitate some things from my past postings on the topic. It's been a while so a couple of "generations" of people here haven't read them.

This is very much like the "Pedal Building Economics 101" in the Guitar Effects FAQ at Geofex - the big issue is not what you think it is. When you go into business selling pedals, it is just that: a business. As such, what matters is the work of running a business, much more than the building of pedals. It is entirely possible to have a literally GREAT product and fail as a business because you either don't understand or hate the business grind.

Selling a product of any kind as more than a hobby requires buying tools, supplies, labor, advertising, and many more; it requires long hours doing the things you haven't yet thought about: dealing with irate or irrational customers, fielding pesky questions about your business/shipping activity from the city business licensing/zoning board, finding a regular supply of parts in quantity, dealing with income tax issues and reporting on the business income. The list goes on forever.

It is seductive to think that you can solder up a few pedals, put whizzo pictures on your new MECHA_BANGER FX! web site, tell your second customer that there's already a five month waiting list, and start raking in hundreds of dollars a pop. Like many forms of seduction, the reality may be somewhat less than the image you have in your mind.

Or you may get rich and have a truly great comb-over like Donald Trump...  

[Paul Marossy]

Unfortunately, most people in our society hate their jobs. But I think life is too short to spend it doing something you hate.

Yes. Unfortunately, I don't have much choice, it's do this stupid job or have no reliable job. 

I thought about what I was doing and realized there's nothing that distinguishes me or my stuff from anyone else('s). I could probably get some small word of mouth thing going locally if I wanted to, but I eventually realized for a variety of reasons I didn't really want to that bad. With anything you attempt, you have to have the passion first and really want it. Otherwise you're just lying to yourself.

I realize this is really personal and I don't mean to discourage anyone who is interested in this. If you have the passion for it, you should definitely do it. There's always a way. Just consider some of the realities and make sure you deal with them in your planning, that's my only point.

I think that's an honest assessment of the situation in terms of building pedals for money. But I think you have a little more to offer the world than you think. That doesn't mean that you personally have to build them all.

[Steve Mavronis]

I think your passion should be the driving force whether or not you are successful selling much, do it because you love building a well made pedal that someone else may also enjoy. Getting good feedback will give you the most happiness even if you break even or have to give them away as gifts.

I'm on the fence about selling a few pedals or just be satisfied enough to stick with the one that I built for myself, or sell 'kit parts' some tinned/etched PCB's and etched top panel graphics, or just forget about it and let others build from the custom PCB layout for their own personal use clone (which they could do anyway) if they actually 'wanted' to check it out in the first place with so many other clone versions out there. Because we put a lot of time and effort into it we become attached to our DIY creations (even ones based on a commercial pedal) just like letting a child leave the house to be on their own someday.

[R.G.]

Unfortunately, most people in our society hate their jobs. But I think life is too short to spend it doing something you hate.

Yes. Unfortunately, I don't have much choice, it's do this stupid job or have no reliable job. 

A secretary where I used to work had a little card on her desk that I remember over 20 years later:

This job allows me to continue some of the little luxuries I've become accustomed to, like eating and living indoors.

[soggybag]

I gave one away this month. I sold a few earlier in the year. Maybe for the year I might be 1/2 pedal a month average. I must have made more than this so I'm probably breaking even.

[Paul Marossy]

A secretary where I used to work had a little card on her desk that I remember over 20 years later:

This job allows me to continue some of the little luxuries I've become accustomed to, like eating and living indoors.

Yeah, I understand it's a necessary "evil". But being out of work for 16 months after 20 years of continuous employment in consulting engineering, going back to the same old BS is 20 times worse than ever.   I should have worked harder to make my own business while I was unemployed.  

Unfortunately, the way the other boutique guy I was building for wanted to do things just did not work for me at all. If that had worked out, I would have told my boss a resounding NO when he asked me to go back to work for him. Yesterday I decided I was drawing a line in the sand and I am only going to go so far and that's it. I'm only one person, and I AM NOT going to do the work of two people and conforming to deadlines a third of what they used to be. I don't need the stress and it's not good for my health. I am 43 years old and I don't even have health insurance anymore for me or my family, so I can't afford to go to any doctor for anything. They won't supply me a punching bag to put in the corner of my cubicle and I wouldn't have the time to beat on it anyway. So there is no stress relief for me other than playing the guitar and being creative - that's what I do and what I love. I don't wake up in the morning and say to myself "Ah, I love to design the HVAC plans for tract home ad nauseum as fast as I can go all the time because there's a dozen more behind the one I just finished, every day of every work week."

There is no perfect job, but I sure do prefer having my own hours and not having constant deadlines ALL the time. I would be happy living on less doing what I like to do, if it was a steady source of income. Such is the life of a tortured creative person trying to live in the U.S.

I've built a few pedals for friends and many for myself, but I never built anything for the money. I did it because I like creating noise making/altering devices. But I can tell you from being forced into working for two different boutique pedal companies as a result of losing my job in March 2009 that you can sell maybe 30 a month, and if you're one of the hotter companies, it can go up ten times or more from there. Obviously, to make 300 pedals a month, you have to have hired help.

[MikeH]

A secretary where I used to work had a little card on her desk that I remember over 20 years later:

This job allows me to continue some of the little luxuries I've become accustomed to, like eating and living indoors.

Lol- this is the exact line I used when I would explain to people I was no longer majoring in music.  "I just think I'll miss all of those luxuries like... food and shelter, etc.", I'd say.

ps- I couldn't hate my current job any more than I do right now.

[Ronsonic]

A secretary where I used to work had a little card on her desk that I remember over 20 years later:

This job allows me to continue some of the little luxuries I've become accustomed to, like eating and living indoors.

Good one. Reminds me of Thomas Sowell writing about the qualifiers that people attach to jobs, like "meaningful" and "fulfilling." His take was that a dry place to sleep and food on the table were as meaningful as anything ever gets.

[mongo]

last year's summer I built 10 copies of my vintage op amp big muff, wich I've given away as gifts to friends or traded some for some other vintage pedals.

for me it's mostly FUN!

Andy

[R.G.]

Good one. Reminds me of Thomas Sowell writing about the qualifiers that people attach to jobs, like "meaningful" and "fulfilling." His take was that a dry place to sleep and food on the table were as meaningful as anything ever gets.

Good point. Man DOTH live by bread alone when there is no bread.

[BadIdeas]

Man, I think 32 hours a week would be perfect. Unfortunately, it seems like if a company is going to work you that much, they won't be satisfied until they've wrung 40+ hours from you. There are few jobs that will enable you to do what you want monetarily and... um time-ilarily. Underemployment has, however, allowed me to learn a lot. I've learned so many things that I want to spend money on...

[joegagan]

i turned 50 this summer. i love my job. i get paid to do a very wide range of projects for a variety of customers. most of my work is construction oriented, but often gets specialized, ie: solutions for small recording studios, design work, artistic tile work, job management, graphic design, advertising copy writing, auto repair etc.
i am fortunate to be good with my hands,  and i have a creative problem solving nature.  i am not getting rich, but i live within meager means. i set my own hours, and get to fire difficult clients if i feel like it ( rare, but necessary sometimes).

my advice to young guys living in the US: be self employed, and be light on your feet. promote yourself heavily, train yourself to build and fix many things. we are enterting a time where fewer and fewer people actually know how to work on things. mike rowe of dirty jobs speaks of a scarcity of guys who know how to work on stuff, the old guys are retiring and dying off.

be professional , treat your customers right. with a little planning and skill, you can name your price. as time goes on, your contacts and reputation will grow to the point where advertising is less and less needed to fill your workload.

get the necessary licenses, pay your taxes, try not to have employess if you can help it. keep a few buddies in your rolodex to help a few days a month when a two man job comes along. return the favor to them when they call you. pay them when they help you, and vice versa. buy as many tools as you can. keep your vehicle running well, drive an older work truck to keep expenses low.

what does this have to with pedal building? nut much. pedals are a sad way to make a living these days, far as i can tell. too many people jumped in, and the china factor has skewed the public's price perception into the dumper. there will always be buyers for well built, handmade pedals , especially if they look great and/or have innovative tone/features. but this particular market is a small pie being served by a large number of willing chefs currently. < listen to RG>. the number of hats a person has to wear to be a successful small pedal builder these days is staggering, hard to foresee till you've been there. when in doubt , refer to <listen to RG>

[Paul Marossy]

my advice to young guys living in the US: be self employed, and be light on your feet. promote yourself heavily, train yourself to build and fix many things. we are enterting a time where fewer and fewer people actually know how to work on things. mike rowe of dirty jobs speaks of a scarcity of guys who know how to work on stuff, the old guys are retiring and dying off.

I agree. Unfortunately, that's beneath most people these days in our everything is disposable society.

be professional , treat your customers right. with a little planning and skill, you can name your price. as time goes on, your contacts and reputation will grow to the point where advertising is less and less needed to fill your workload.

Yeah, a good reputation still goes a long way.

get the necessary licenses, pay your taxes, try not to have employess if you can help it. keep a few buddies in your rolodex to help a few days a month when a two man job comes along. return the favor to them when they call you. pay them when they help you, and vice versa. buy as many tools as you can. keep your vehicle running well, drive an older work truck to keep expenses low.

Good tips. Finally having two cars that are paid off after over 20 years of continuous car payments is a great feeling. Debt free is the only way to be.

what does this have to with pedal building? nut much. pedals are a sad way to make a living these days, far as i can tell. too many people jumped in, and the china factor has skewed the public's price perception into the dumper. there will always be buyers for well built, handmade pedals , especially if they look great and/or have innovative tone/features. but this particular market is a small pie being served by a large number of willing chefs currently. < listen to RG>. the number of hats a person has to wear to be a successful small pedal builder these days is staggering, hard to foresee till you've been there. when in doubt , refer to <listen to RG>

Yeah, I think I have to agree on that. It's a tough business to be in, even if you have "arrived". Weren't you building your own line of guitar pedals around seven years ago?

[joegagan]

thanks, paul. i created nine volt nirvana effects in 2001. in 2002/03 we built and sold 400 pedals. after designing the circuits, the visuals, the marketing,  i farmed out the actual assembly to a local electronics firm, doing QC and final assembly/shipping myself. it was fun and exciting but ultimatlely poorly managed by yours truly.

[Paul Marossy]

thanks, paul. i created nine volt nirvana effects in 2001. in 2002/03 we built and sold 400 pedals. after designing the circuits, the visuals, the marketing,  i farmed out the actual assembly to a local electronics firm, doing QC and final assembly/shipping myself. it was fun and exciting but ultimatlely poorly managed by yours truly.

Yeah, that's what I thought - 9V Nirvana. I am in a similar arrangement with the one boutique builder I am still working for. Do you ever wish you had kept it going?

[joegagan]

in 2001 it was a pretty wide open field. wayhuge was just about closed down, zvex and fuller were the big names. prescription electronics, voodoo labs, visual sound were all doing a pretty nice business. analogman was mostly a retailer/modder at that point.

i was part of what i consider the 2nd wave of boutique builders. bob bennett,  nick greer, catalinbread, alfonso hermida, robert keeley, wampler, toadworks, a few others. this wave banked heavily on the forum culture of musictoyz forum and especially harmony central. keeley was very adept at being a 'buddy'at harmony central, his early success with the keeley compressor was an amazing success story, largely fueled by a feeding frenzy at HC. since he sold direct to the public, he was the first to really break out of the old way of doing business , ie: establish a dealer network of music stores or be rep'd by a distributor. by the time he was a household name, fender was coming to him and asking him to put his pedals in their distributor catalog. he was in a great position as he already had sold thousands of pedals on his own. the other upside of selling direct was that his profit margin on the keeley comp was very very nice. it funded his expansion, he worked his business in a very smart way. i am proud of robert.

the success of keeley and others prompted the 3rd wave, where a lot of people got stars in their eyes and wanted to cash in on the boutique craze. dozens of guys introduced tubescreamer/ fuzzface variants to the willing herds at HC , TGP etc with varying success. this phenom has been thoroughly commented on here at aron's over the years.

the declining economy in the last 3 years gives us a situation where the market is full of underpriced high quallity used product. combine this with a flood of low-priced, good quality product from many other countries- smart product people have incorporated features from the boutique world to a certain degree. the atmosphere is not nearly what it was in 02, or even 05 for that matter.

that, in a long form is my answer. i am glad i am not in the market, but i do miss the thrill of developing the product, and especially designing circuits and hearing the player's reactions to them.

[joegagan]

i forgot, in 2001, dave barber was also a well recognized successful name. he survived the economy downturn of 2001 by coming out with a pedal line that would retail for around 130 as opposed to the previous boutique 'mark'of 180- 220. the lessons he learned in 2001 are part of his success recipe to this day.