OT: Firefly Parts Question

[chi_boy]

This is just a little off topic, but since I bought the Firefly amp circuit board in the "For Sale" forum, I thought this might be OK.


I'm ordering parts and there is 1 cap that Mouser doesn't carry anymore.  The specific cap is an Orange Drop 225, .022uF, 400V.

This is my first amp and I've never messed with Orange Drops.  I need to substitute and I would like to know if it would be better to switch to a 715 or 716 series, or if I could use a 225 with a 200V rating.   Or maybe go to a .033uF in the 225, 400V.  Or maybe Mallory 150's.

I'm not a cap snob by any means.  I just want to sub something that will physically fit, and not adversely affect the sound.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
George

[Brymus]

Its not going to matter as long as your voltage rating and value are right.
Using a .033uf is just going to let more bass through a .01uf less bass more highs.
But I wouldn't use a 200v cap there just to be safe.(at least 300v)
The Mallory 150 is OK to use,especially if it saves placing an order for one cap.

You could even get two .01uf high voltage ceramics at Radio Shack for 2$ and use them parralleled together for a .02uf cap.
But IMHO the M150 would sound better,I have used a .01uf M150 with a .01 uf RS ceramic and it sounded OK too.

[defaced]

Not sure what you were searching, but they carry them and they're in stock.  http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay/225P22394XD3/?qs=MZ2FkKEZZL98aAIUBWHJpQ%3d%3d

As for subbing them, 715s are slightly larger in girth.  I have 716s around here somwhere, and I think they're more physically sized to 715s than 225s, but that makes sense because they're the same material.  

Note, search for 225P, 715P or 716P.  Orange Drop is a cute trade name and means almost nothing to Mouser.  Searching for "225 Orange Drop" does not pull the 0.022u 400v part, searching for "0.022 225P" dumps me straight to the part with three voltages to select from. 

[DougH]

I don't know why anyone would use orange drops in this amp. I would use Mallory's anyway.

[defaced]

What's your reasoning?

[chi_boy]

Not sure what you were searching, but they carry them and they're in stock.  http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay/225P22394XD3/?qs=MZ2FkKEZZL98aAIUBWHJpQ%3d%3d

Well that makes me question my searching skills.

I was working from the part numbers in the Firefly BOM, so I was slightly biased. Interestingly though, that size doesn't appear on the catalog page.  Thanks for the tip.

[chi_boy]

I don't know why anyone would use orange drops in this amp. I would use Mallory's anyway.

Well it sounds like my poor searching skills were an advantage after all.  Thanks for the input.

I'll change to Mallory based on that advice.

Thanks for the help.

GP

[therecordingart]

I don't know why anyone would use orange drops in this amp. I would use Mallory's anyway.

Off topic, but when I switch the boost on I get a noticeable drop in bass. Normal?

[DougH]

What's your reasoning?

In general, people who build marshall/hi-gain style amps prefer and use mallories, whereas you will see the orange drops in fenders. They are supposedly smoother for the high gain stuff whereas the OD's are more "precise". I haven't a/b'ed them myself. Once I did sub OD's for some ceramics in a tone stack and it made a dramatic difference in the sound. Not sure how much was due to tolerance vs. cap type etc. I use mallories because they are small, inexpensive, and seem to work well enough.

[MikeH]

I don't know why anyone would use orange drops in this amp. I would use Mallory's anyway.

Lol - I used orange drops because that's what was on the parts list for the pcb I bought.  For the record I think mine sounds FREAKIN SWEET orange drops and all.

[DougH]

Did you get it from John? Or whoever it is that's selling them now? If I knew John was spec'ing orange drops I might have suggested he tried mallories, if for nothing else to save space.

[MikeH]

Yes - I believe it was John Calhoun?  Maybe I'll try Mallories some day, but it sound pretty damn good as it is.

[DougH]

Hey, if it sounds good leave it alone. The OP was worried about not having the right value orange drop. I wouldn't agonize over a cap type either way.

[jrod]

Sorry to hijack here!

Can some suggest speakers?

I am about to finish up my Firefly and wanted to use a small cab with one speaker to keep it all compact. Seems I read somewhere that this amp doesn't sound so good with a single 10 inch or 12 inch. What say the experts?

EDIT: BTW, I currently have a 2x12 cab with Jensen C12N's for my AA165 Bassman. Might these work well with the Firefly?

[therecordingart]

I'm using a Rocktron 1x12 and it sounds fine to me. I used an open back 2x12 with Eminence speakers and it was delightful!

[jrod]

I'm using a Rocktron 1x12 and it sounds fine to me. I used an open back 2x12 with Eminence speakers and it was delightful!

Cool thanks! Ill try my 2x12 when I am finished and look into a small 1x10 or 1x12.

[Brymus]

What's your reasoning?

In general, people who build marshall/hi-gain style amps prefer and use mallories, whereas you will see the orange drops in fenders. They are supposedly smoother for the high gain stuff whereas the OD's are more "precise". I haven't a/b'ed them myself. Once I did sub OD's for some ceramics in a tone stack and it made a dramatic difference in the sound. Not sure how much was due to tolerance vs. cap type etc. I use mallories because they are small, inexpensive, and seem to work well enough.

When I was building a single ended trainwreck type amp (from an EVJ) I couldn't decide which type coupling caps to use and I had a hard time believing they could be so important.
SO I put all the coupling caps on DPDT switches ,which amounted to 3 total,with a 4th set up to try the ceramic/film blending that is seen in TW's.

What I found was quite astonishing all 3 stages DPDT used a .022uf Orange Drop on one side and a .022uf Mallory 150 on the other.
And with all the stages set to Mallory 150's the distortion was definetly smoother/creamier sounding ,as well as being a bit darker as well.
(the darkness gradually goes away after playing the amp many hours)
I can only come close by saying it was a very pleasing sounding type of coloration when using the M150's definetly reminded me of that classic Marshall sound.
The Orange Drops were crystal clear sounding in comparison,the distortion sharper,it was really amazing to hear it for myself.
Most definetly a night and day type of difference when applied to 3 stages at once,sounded like two completely different amps.

I would really encourage anyone who can't decide, to do like me and use switches to A/B the two types of caps.

[DougH]

What I found was quite astonishing all 3 stages DPDT used a .022uf Orange Drop on one side and a .022uf Mallory 150 on the other.
And with all the stages set to Mallory 150's the distortion was definetly smoother/creamier sounding ,as well as being a bit darker as well.
(the darkness gradually goes away after playing the amp many hours)
I can only come close by saying it was a very pleasing sounding type of coloration when using the M150's definetly reminded me of that classic Marshall sound.
The Orange Drops were crystal clear sounding in comparison,the distortion sharper,it was really amazing to hear it for myself.
Most definetly a night and day type of difference when applied to 3 stages at once,sounded like two completely different amps.

I would really encourage anyone who can't decide, to do like me and use switches to A/B the two types of caps.

Did you measure the cap values beforehand? I would do that first with a test like this to eliminate differences due to tolerance being a variable.

Related but a little OT: I just did some more tweaks to my Peavey Windsor "2203". In a cost-saving move (I suspect), PV installed some unnecessary coupling caps so they could use less expensive low voltage caps in sections of the circuit such as the tone stack. I eliminated the unnecessary series caps and installed proper high-voltage caps in the tone stack and other areas of the preamp where they had done this. I was surprised at the very noticeable improvement in the overall sound, less "conjested" like my amp blew its nose or something. I suspect the accumulated phase shift from all the unnecessary caps was affecting the amp sound in an undesirable way.

[defaced]

All,

If you're not saying what series of Sprague Orange Drops you're working with, then the discussion is a waste of time.  There are three common types of ODs used, and they're not the same.

What's your reasoning?

In general, people who build marshall/hi-gain style amps prefer and use mallories, whereas you will see the orange drops in fenders. They are supposedly smoother for the high gain stuff whereas the OD's are more "precise". I haven't a/b'ed them myself. Once I did sub OD's for some ceramics in a tone stack and it made a dramatic difference in the sound. Not sure how much was due to tolerance vs. cap type etc. I use mallories because they are small, inexpensive, and seem to work well enough.

Fair enough.  150s are poyester, as are Sprague 225Ps.  Sprague 715P and 716Ps are polypropylene.  I make high gain tube circuits and have heard no "oh my God" difference between the 715Ps and the 255Ps.  I have some 716Ps but haven't tried them yet.

[DougH]

Dude, relax... No one's dissing your choice of caps. Use whatever you like. I was reporting on common (mis)conceptions and etc. As I mentioned before I like Mallories because of their small size and price. Good enough?