How has DIY shaped your view of commercial pedals

[petemoore]

  Building effects took away the magic-spell aspect of effects, they could no longer be though of as having the ability to magically transform my less than charming speaker into a raging stack or even the best blues tone known, I then understood them too well to think of them as 'magic' any longer.
  Now I look at hand made, commercial, mass produced, plastic or metal box effects as: what's in it ?.
  And for boost/dist/toneshaping nothing tells the story like hand-tweeking the distortion of your rig, such as changing things outside the basic distorter [ie -re-evaluate speakers/amp/pickups to get closer to the 'it' tone. If just for the demonstrations of say input cap values in their ability to make me feel like I'm knowing instead of hoping for luck/guessing 'this' is the right commercial dirtbox or whatever. 20 dirtboxes and 200 toneshapings later...pretty sure I understand the dirtbox is just a dirtbox, and I know what kinds of dirt to use for different kinds of 'f-soundations'.
  Bought an Echo Park which is still fine choice, also a Stereo Looper, why bother when ''it'' is all there, available, relatively or very inexpensive, ready, no-risk-reliability [at least while under warranty].
  The looper and echo were/are over my head now and seems like a rediculous learning curve/workload compared to simply buy-it technique.
 

[Earthscum]

I went through 3 stages... at first, I started looking at all the things I could make at much less of a price. "Never buy a pedal again" attitude. Then I hit a smidgen of the synth bug, and realized what REALLY goes into those, and got frustrated. "For what I've spent, I shoulda just looked for a new one... I give up" attitude.

Now I'm in the middle of the road, like most. I can really appreciate what most pedals have inside them, and what it takes to get that manufactured and reliable and into the hands of someone who's gonna gig with it and hopefully spread the word and show it off.

I do look at some pedals and wonder wtf they are charging for... a common example is FF derivatives. Most of those are overpriced, IMHO. The price gets bumped up because, as stated above me, a lot of people just play a pedal without knowing what really makes it work, and rightfully so. I don't expect everyone to become an EE before they plug into their BMP. This puts it on the particular manufacturer's conscience that they are charging too much... if they have a conscience. The "everlasting" and respected manufacturers haven't made it in this world by this practice. Really, all it takes is a little time before someone that knows to say "You payed HOW MUCH?!? Dude, you could've bought the same exact circuit from (whoever) for half the price!"

[Steve Mavronis]

Being relatively new to this for less than a year I see this relationship between DIY clones and commercial pedals in another way. I'd raher build my own DIY clone instead of buying if the circuit wasn't too complex.  But what affects me in reverse is I always aim to build at better than commercial quality because I'm building for myself at higher standards in both design looks and construction. That's why they tend to look like something you'd expect to see sold at stores.

[jasperoosthoek]

As a kid I used to build paper cars and whatnot. But I was mostly interested in electrical stuff. The biggest problem was that no one could help me and there was no internet yet.
At about the age of 10 I had taken the motor from a vacuum cleaner and was able to connect it. Like a helicopter with one rotor it started spinning and rolled through my bedroom . Then I fixed it in a box with yoki bear, my favorite teddy, to hold it.
At the age of 16 I made a 10 inch long Ferrari F40 from galvanized sheet metal I took from school. Using nasty acidic flux and plumbers solder. I had learned from a previous mistake and cleaned it with soap at the end of the day. That saved it from corrosion. I almost finished it. Only the doors were not fixed but the locks worked as well as the steering wheel.

At the age of 18 I got my first acoustic guitar, then an electric. As a poor student it never occured to me to buy a pedal. I saw the prices at music stores and was shocked. From the age of 9 I had a 'conrad' catalog, a kind of local mouser with many gadgets. So I know what the prices of components were even though I had NO idea what transistors and opamps did.

My first effect was a Marshall bluesbreaker on perfboard, directly from the schematic. Never liked it but built a lot ever since. The last nine years I've looked at over a hundred schematics and built about 15 pedals. A lot of the things I learned were beneficial for my job: Tho weeks ago I soldered my first SMD component on a daughter board with solder paste I wouldn't have heard about if it wasn't for this forum! Only this year I actually bought my first commercial pedal: A TC Electronics Polytune.

So DIY hasn't shaped my take on commercial pedals as I knew nothing about commercial pedals before DIY.

[phector2004]

I used to think pedals were the coolest things on earth. Had my eye on the Dunlop Octavio for a good month, pretty much a year ago. While looking it up one day, I discovered R.G.'s Technology of the Fuzz face, and got sucked right in. Why pay 200$ for an Octavio when I could build one for 50$ or less? One failed fuzz face later, I built a GRO (close enough!) and then I started reading. Followed by more reading and more learning. I've learnt a lot, and my current view on commercial pedals is as follows:

1) Ergonomics rock -- Can't beat Boss pedals in terms of value. I've never had a problem with them and they've taken some serious abuse... I remember my friend once plugged my RC-2 into his amp...        output!  Not trying that again, but the user-friendliness is great. I've heard great things about visual sound pedals, but the one I tried a year and a half ago was plugged into a really dirty power source... Had I known any better, at the time, I would have purchased it, but most salesmen are sleazebags so I assumed he was trying to screw me over...

2) "Mojo" -- Unless you're Slade, you just can't make certain pedals any cooler than the original. I'd still buy a red fuzz face just for the enclosure. Is the sound worth the money? No. Will it look cool in front of my amp? Yes.

3) Cheap moddable platform -- I'm planning on getting a DS-1 for a friend for Christmukkah (don't want him to feel left out!). Is it worth the 40$? Maybe not for the sound, but as a "template", and after some mods, I'm sure he'll be surprised. Then again he's one of those Guitar-Cable-Amp puritans. You've also got the Danelectros and the Behringer pedals that can be beefed up with just a few component changes. Nice!

4) Boutique vs. Commercial Developments -- Sure, building your own effects can let you do stuff like "True Bypass" or use "Carbon comp resistors" or have "Tube Echo" but the more you learn, the more you realize how many stupid ideas are being developed. Now how exactly do you get a tube to cause echo? What are CCs gonna do in a 9V TS9? As for true bypass, sometimes it ISNT good. I was wondering why one of my amps sounded dull even though I had no "Tone-sucking" non TB pedals going to my amp. Turns out, you can't play through a 20ft cable without a buffer. It sounds like shit. I plugged in my "proletariat" OS-2 and it sounded great. As for boosts/overdrives/distortions, they're all the same deal. Different clipping, different frequencies going through, etc. Its great buying a pedal for some dirt, but if you're going to invest 300$ for a boutique "tube" distortion to make your 300$ SS amp sound like a tube amp, why not buy a 600$ tube amp in the first place?? So on one hand there's all the boutique BS driving me away from buying pedals, towards building my own. On the other hand, buying commercial pedals supports new developments, especially in the digital world. Is it a good thing? For modulation, echo, etc, hell yeah, but when they churn out "COSM" effects that IMO sound sterile, I'm grateful the boutique pedals draw the market in the opposite direction. Am I an ass for not buying boutique? No, as tubes don't belong everywhere and others will buy them instead 

In the end, what do I buy and what do I build?

Buy:
Any interesting boutique pedals - no tube screamer clones!
Anything that looks really nice. If it sounds terrible, I can always gut it!
Cheap and durable pedals to use as-is or to mod
DSP stuff that I can't yet make
Maybe someday, when I'm rich, something from this community

Build:
Anything that can't be found in stores - Uglyface, Echo Base, etc
Most distortions > $100
Cool analog effects boutique companies are selling for a fortune
Pedals of my own design (I'll have the brains for it soon, hopefully!)

[p_wats]

Learning to DIY has kept my GAS in check somewhat. I no longer want a pedal that I didn't build (unless it's a RC20XL or something very complex).

[MoltenVoltage]

DIY gives you a much deeper appreciation for how much work goes into making a BOSS type pedal that can deal with just about any signal and remain stable and quiet.  That's where lots of boutique pedals fall short of the top-tier commercial pedals, IMO.

I buy things that have cool enclosures, but mostly I buy broken pedals and fix them and learn something every time.

I agree that it tends to creep into the rest of your life.  Car repairs, stereo repairs, appliance repairs, laptop repairs, ... and of course lots of mods!

[alparent]

If it wasn't for DIY I wouldn't have any effects at all!

Who can justify buying all those pedals.......but if I'm building them.....My wife thinks I'm a genius!!!

She doesn't care about the money I spend building......it's my hobby! I'm learning stuff and my 7 year old loves when I build "Technologie Stuff" like he calls it! I can pass this love of building and learning and figuring things out down to him and that is great!

Yes I could go out and get one or two Zoom pedals that would do all I really need to play! But what's the fun in that! Anybody can do that!

Doesn't really answer you original question.......but felt good writing it anyways!  

[frequencycentral]

Wait..........you can buy this stuff from shops??

[jefe]

Wait..........you can buy this stuff from shops??

Why the heck am I wasting my time with all this DIY stuff?

Adios, suckers! I'm off to buy a commercially made pedal, and save myself a few hours of precious time in the process.



j/k, I get an incredible amount of satisfaction from building this stuff.

[Mark Hammer]

To be honest, I'm kind of horrified with the idea of modding a commercial pedal. After making the investment, I don't want to touch it. I fixed a problem with my Phase 100 and caused another which I now need to fix and etc. I have a solder sucker now so I'm more confident in my skills, but still in general I don't like reworking commercial pcb's, especially tiny ones.

Trust me, Doug, if I was able to walk into a store and buy a Moogerfooger pedal, retail, you can be pretty sure I wouldn't go monkeying around in there.  And I certainly ain't dickering around with rack staff like the Lexicon unit I have.  BUt if the worst it can be is a $60 mistake, screw it, I'm yanking off my electronic jeans and diving in.

Interesting anecdote, though.  A little over 3 years ago now, maybe even 4, Bill Finnegan calls me up out of the blue, and asks me if I could help him out with a couple of changes to the Klon Centaur that he was thinking of implementing.  I guess he trusted me, for some reason.  I'm a little taken aback, and tell him it feels like I've been asked to re-edit "Gone With the Wind" and sex it up a bit.  I'm willing, though.

Anyway, he sends me two boards.  One of them is a stock Klon, and the other has every single component socketed.  Every resistor, cap, diode, chip, you name it, is inserted into a stock board that has machined socket pins installed in the pad.  The goal was to monkey with component values but not have to change the board itself.  It was a couple of months of staring at a schematic, yanking this thing out and sticking that one in.  Rigged up a chassis that accommodated the two boards, so that I could set their controls identically, and A/B back and forth to compare.  I was never abe to do what he was aiming for, though.  Pity.  I felt like I let him down.  But the challenge was interesting.

Needless to say, he was VERY protective of the "experimentation" board, because it had taken him many hours of work to get all the pins installed and the parts plugged.  Kind of the ideal breadboard.  I was very careful to take good care of it, and ship it back intact.  I did protect the schematic, and held to my end of the bargain, IP-wise, but it would seem like many elves have been busy reverse engineering it, posting the schematic and selling boards for a build-your-own version, and now Bill has pretty much disappeared from the landscape.

Which leads to another consequence of my DIY experience on my approach to commercial pedals.  I now look at something and think "hmmm, wonder how long THAT will be financially viable to produce".

[frequencycentral]

Actually the kick for me is looking at my pedal board and seeing mostly unique items that you can't buy in the shops.

[phector2004]

Actually the kick for me is looking at my pedal board and seeing mostly unique items that you can't buy in the shops.

Going into unique submini tube amps you can't buy in the shops 

[rousejeremy]

DIYing made me lose respect for a lot of the manufacturers for the first year. I always wondered why they were charging so much for something that can be built for so little.
Now I have a lot more respect. When I open my Carbon Copy I am impressed with the layout of everything that's on board. How the pots and light and switch and board and jacks and power all pop out together. I think of how hard it would be for me to do something like that. I've seen a few posts here from people who can build like that and it's inspiring.
And for all the complaining about large manufacturersand use of cheap parts and cheap labour and smd, whatever these pedals can take punishment and still work. Of all the pedals I've built only a couple have not had some issue after a year of use. If I were Boss I would've gone out of business a long time ago.

The biggest effect DIY has had on me is how it's shaped my view of the opinions of those who know nothing of DIY stuff but claim to know boatloads about effects.

[CodeMonk]

I've been DIY'ing stuff since I was about 10. Only been doing pedals for about the last 5 years or so.
If i see something, try it, like it, price is right, I buy it.
Then I will take it apart, to at least look at it, try to learn from it, maybe mod it.
But $140 for a fuzz face? I think not. Not when I could build one in an hour or two (not counting painting the enclosure) for like $15 or less.

All that being said, boutique pedals are way overpriced in many cases IMO.
All the other suchs as Boss, Berhinger, Danelectro, and all the others that you usually find at guitarcenter on sale, Its just another business.
I don't really have negative or positive feeling for those companies, although I do own some of those pedals.

[DougH]

Mark, i think the "if they discover my secret I'm ruined" is a false dichotomy. The electronics industry has a rich heritage of stealing ideas from ea other (and maybe improving them). continued on next post

[DougH]

(cont) Companies that understand that deal with it. The only ones who whine about it are snake oil salesmen and those who equate building an overdrive to curing cancer. Why does boss still build a ds1? Secret's been out forever and it's simple to clone. Nothing that spectacular about it yet somehow they still sell. sd1,ts9, too.

[Nick C.]

It's appears what your paying for in many boutique pedals is the builder's ear for hearing good tone in his tweaks and packaging.

[jasperoosthoek]

Most players just don't build pedals or don't even know that normal people can. Doesn't milk come from the supermarket?

Most players do want mojo at their feet. Mojo costs money.

[newfish]

..personally, I learned a lot about marketing.

More importantly, I learned how much I didn't know about compact, incredibly neat PCB layouts.

This list has seen me through the 'want a Hendrix sound, but can't justify the price tag of a Fuzz Face - maybe I'll learn to solder' stage, through to the, 'I'll just etch a couple of PCBs this evening I think', but to get to doing 'commercial standard' layouts / PCBs will still take some time.

There's a reason that commercial kit has a particular retail value - maybe it's even an average figure of what "Joe Guitarist" is willing to pay for a given box (Can of Worms truly opened...)

In a nutshell, if it's an overdrive, Fuzz or simple Trem, I'll make it - and enjoy the process.

If it's digital, or hugely complicated, I'll buy it.

Like so many things, it's about knowing what is achievable with the skills you already have - with an eye to learning a few more for next time.