CE-2/CE-3 differences??

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Thinking about building up a CE-3. I had a CE-2 that I really liked but sold off. I have a few sets of BBD chips for the CE-3 and want to solicit opinions on the pros and cons of the CE-3 and how it compared to the CE-2.

Anyone?

[zombiwoof]

Thinking about building up a CE-3. I had a CE-2 that I really liked but sold off. I have a few sets of BBD chips for the CE-3 and want to solicit opinions on the pros and cons of the CE-3 and how it compared to the CE-2.

Anyone?

Well, the actual Boss CE-3's are considered the "black sheep" of the Boss choruses, you'll notice they go for a lot less than the others on the market.  I had a CE-3 years ago and didn't like it, it was noisy and sort of digital-sounding, and not as deep-sounding a chorus as the CE-2 and others.  However, if you are building one yourself, I would think you could fix the problems of the original with component selection.  Does it use different chips than the CE-2?.  I would suggest building a CE-2 if it has the same chips, that's known to be an excellent pedal.  I would add the effects level pot of the CE-2B, which really makes it more versatile (that's what I have now, it's almost the same circuit as the CE-2 except for like one resistor that changes the range of the frequencies effected by the chorus).

Al

Al

[Mark Hammer]

Actually, if you compare later-issue CE-2s, from the point at which Boss has switched over from MN3007/MN3101 sets to MN3207/MN3102 chipsets, the only difference between the CE-2 and CE-3 is really the stereo option.  The LFO and clock circuit is identical, so any difference in perceived depth (and I'm not denying there was any difference) would have been entirely due to  component tolerances, and perhaps the manner in which their bias trimpots were set.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Actually, if you compare later-issue CE-2s, from the point at which Boss has switched over from MN3007/MN3101 sets to MN3207/MN3102 chipsets...

Thanks Mark. This is EXACTLY why I am trying the CE-3 as opposed to the CE-2. The CE-2 uses the PRICY 3007/3101 BBD set as opposed to the LESS EXPENSIVE 3207/3102 set. I am hoping that a lot of the "mojo" that makes the CE-2 a great chorus will not be lost in my CE-3 build. I will be using quality caps, resistors, etc. but I can't get around the BBD selection. I have quite a few pairs of the 3207/3102 laying around and want to put them to good use. 

[geertjacobs]

http://www.pedalarea.com/chorus_ensemble.htm

Comparison of CE-1, CE-2, CE-3, CE-5 and CE-5a.

[Mark Hammer]

Thanks Mark. This is EXACTLY why I am trying the CE-3 as opposed to the CE-2. The CE-2 uses the PRICY 3007/3101 BBD set as opposed to the LESS EXPENSIVE 3207/3102 set. I am hoping that a lot of the "mojo" that makes the CE-2 a great chorus will not be lost in my CE-3 build. I will be using quality caps, resistors, etc. but I can't get around the BBD selection. I have quite a few pairs of the 3207/3102 laying around and want to put them to good use. 

It's easy to get lost in all the details, but quite frankly, the single biggest different between one chorus and another is going to be delay range selected by the clock cap value (or unintentionally selected by the cap tolerance!).  There will be other sonic differences, of course, and I would imagine anyone who lived with a particular pedal for 6 months might eventually say there was this or that aspect that didn't quite match another one, but the one aspect that will stand out most is the delay range.

[jkokura]

I have a Boss CE-3. I did a small modification to the circuit. If you search the site, you'll find a post in which someone summarizes the two circuits, and then makes a suggestion to change.

I think I changed a couple resistors, and one transistor. Sounds better to my ears. I think the CE-3 is a great chorus now. At least as good as the CE-2 I used to own.

jacob

[Thomeeque]

..but the one aspect that will stand out most is the delay range..

This would be hardly case of differences between CE2 and CE3, clock circuitry is completely the same*.

There are few other differences in CE2 / CE3 schems besides the most visible one (3007/3101 vs. 3207/3102), e.g. LFO is (very sligthly) different, wet path cap at output mixer is twice as big in CE3.. this is probably what jacob is talking about..

T.

* Edit: I may be wrong here if the 3101 and 3102 frequencies differ with the same network around..

[Fender3D]

There are few other differences in CE2 / CE3 schems besides the most visible one (3007/3101 vs. 3207/3102), e.g. LFO is (very sligthly) different, wet path cap at output mixer is twice as big in CE3.. this is probably what jacob is talking about..

T.

* Edit: I may be wrong here if the 3101 and 3102 frequencies differ with the same network around..

...unless the diode on MN3102 pin3 to ground affects the clock somehow...

[Thomeeque]

...unless the diode on MN3102 pin3 to ground affects the clock somehow...

Oh, I've missed that This is GND/V_DD pin, it could have some influence.. maybe..

[Fender3D]

BTW
having different BBD sets allows you for real "ensemle" kind of sound simply multiplying  LFOs...

[jkokura]

This is the thread I mentioned that someone compared the schems pretty seriously. It's where I got my modification ideas from.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=57790.0

Jacob

[jaysg]

When I sold off my CE-3, it never occurred to me that the design was so similar to the CE-2 that it could be modified to be a stereo CE-2.  I think I got $25.  Schematics were hard to come by.

[Dr.maligno]

if you want to mod ce3 to ce2 headroom, only change R18(120k) for a rising value(1m). Only this change with changing Q1(K30), for a 2N5088. It jump to life.
Happy new year.
Verified.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Only this change with changing Q1(K30), for a 2N5088. It jump to life.
Happy new year.
Verified.

You verified the circuit after changing a K30 JFET transistor with a 5088 NPN Amplifier? How exactly did it sound?  What were the pinouts? (i.e. Drain = Emitter, Gate = Base, etc.)

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Looking over both the CE-2 and CE-3, I noticed that the CE-2 incorporated a 220uF cap between Vref and ground (C30) in the power circuit HOWEVER, the CE-3 does not use this but instead uses an NPN transistor (Q7) with a 10uF electro cap to ground from Q7s base.

Any ideas why this change was made?

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Looking over both the CE-2 and CE-3, I noticed that the CE-2 incorporated a 220uF cap between Vref and ground (C30) in the power circuit HOWEVER, the CE-3 does not use this but instead uses an NPN transistor (Q7) with a 10uF electro cap to ground from Q7s base.

Any ideas why this change was made?

Found some links to schemos:

CE-2: http://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/s/boss-ce2-chorus-schematic.php

CE-3: http://www.synthdiy.com/files/2007/bossce-3.jpg

[geertjacobs]

HOWEVER, the CE-3 does not use this but instead uses an NPN transistor (Q7) with a 10uF electro cap to ground from Q7s base.
Any ideas why this change was made?

Looks like a delayed power-on for powering the two delay IC's?

[Govmnt_Lacky]

HOWEVER, the CE-3 does not use this but instead uses an NPN transistor (Q7) with a 10uF electro cap to ground from Q7s base.
Any ideas why this change was made?

Looks like a delayed power-on for powering the two delay IC's?

OK thanks  Just a few clarification questions.

Any idea why they chose to delay the power on for the CE-3's delay ICs but, they did not do this on the CE-2?.

Would there be a benefit to inserting the 220uF cap into the CE-3 circuit? Or, can it be omitted as in the original factory schemo?

I ask because I have a layout for a CE-3 build however, the layout has an "EXTRA" 220uF cap going from Pin 1 of the clock chip (MN3102) to ground. (The layout already has the NPN transistor and 10uF cap) Just wondering why it is there and if omitting it will cause problems.

Thanks all for any help. 

[geertjacobs]

FWIW the delayed startup is also present in the analog version of the CE-5.
http://www.eserviceinfo.com/downloadsm/41773/Boss_CE5.html