success rate?

[pazuzu]

what's yours?

i really wonder why i bother with this hobby. 90% of the things i build are so noisy i can't use them. and 20% of those don't even pass signal through. i am a total @#$%ing failure.

[Derringer]

having some test equipment makes a big difference
audio probes work but it's really nice to have a signal generator and o-scope

I tend to breadboard things one section at a time, then test/troubleshoot so as to eliminate more complex troubleshooting

[Processaurus]

Nothing I make works the first time.  Debugging is what stops that from being permanent.

Controlling noise is an important aspect of analog electronics.  How you do your wiring, board layout, grounding, parts selection, and circuit design  (sometimes designs here are just noisy, even if they are built correctly) all figure into how high the noise floor is.

[pazuzu]

yea i have always been a "do it without any plans or prior preparation" guy. really though, i have maybe made 10 pedals, and 4 of them worked right from the get go. i was just venting because my latest build didn't work right out of the gate. my approach is probably not the best for this hobby, but that's me. and it is ever so satisfying to get out mr 3lb hammer and go to town on my failures.

[Mark Hammer]

There are some things in life that, when you don't consider how many false attempts, or how much practice, has happened before you got to see the final product, you tend to think of as something that should just.....happen.  We don't see how much hard work infants put into learning about how humans "mean" things, that language just sorta seems to happen.  We don't realize exactly how many ways there are for reading to NOT happen, that when someone is unable to pick up a text and read it fluidly at first shot, we think that maybe there is something "wrong". 

There are all manner of things that involve far more practice, far more trial and error, and normally include or anticipate far more error, than we realize.  As with the "simple" task of reading, when you think of how many different things can go wrong when making a pedal, it is an absolute miracle that ANY of ours work at all.

So learn to appreciate the tenuous nature of "successful" builds.  They are far less common than you would think, and even less common for first builds.  One of the reasons I have so many things in duplicate and triplicate is because the first time was shaky, and I could apply the lessons learned to making a 2nd or 3rd with greater reliability.

[pazuzu]

oh yes, i hear you guys. i was done venting like 5 minutes after that post, and since i bought a tube and tube socket for this build i actually tried to debug it instead of just smashing it and getting drunk like usually do, and got it working. misread a resistor band..

i have the (dis)advantage of having many things in life that involve tangible mechanics, layout, assembly, etc come easy for me, so my patience for failure is very short. 

[petemoore]

  It applies to guitar gear in general.
 Not the debuggins so much as the fiddling with and reading about types of effects, value substitutions as a way of being able to figure out a rig.
 Noise is a peeled onion, one layer at a time, cry over each layer, the circuits built are really the same as the circuits built DIY or otherwise, once all the noise layers have been sorted out. Other than errors [which either can have], no real noise difference when averaged.
 As far as getting them going...you'll get them going, or at least enough to make good use of what works. Don't expect it'll happen right away, and it is contingent on better understanding the circuits you have.
 Expert debugger is something you must become when in a bit over your head and the evidence boxes start piling up.
 Start with the power supply, no shorts?...workable operating voltage ? Move to each stage bias...seems ok ? work with the audio probe and check for stray ground on signal path where the sound processing block is...you'll get it.
 More info must be obtained before great progress beyond luck can begin, to the Debugging thread...w/meter, paper, pen...test for shorts, test for supply, check for operational bias for device #1, continue using audio probe across signal input, transport wires, traces, switch?, input and output of device. On to the next, with the info you, we will know much more about it.
 
 

[R.G.]

Success rate on first build, about 5%.

Eventual success rate, after debugging, 99%+.

You have never failed until you quit.

[MoltenVoltage]

Savor the times when things don't work as planned and you get to figure out what you did wrong.  You learn 10 times as much from mistakes.

Just make sure you factor in about twice as much time as you think you will need before starting on a new project and you won't get so frustrated.

Troubleshoot methodically and put things back together right away when you have tested them and confirmed they are not the source of the problem, otherwise you will end up chasing your tail.

[ayayay!]

At first, horribly poor.  Nowadays, nearly 100% working on the first try.  BUT, I'm no R.G., Hammer, FreqCent, John Lyons, etc...  I just check, then double check, then triple check my: layouts, parts, available time (then double said time) and ask any questions beforehand.  When I doubt something will work before I begin, it probably won't, so I wait.  Patiently.  

What's the old saying?  Measure twice, cut once.  I've been in telecom for about 15 years and have developed a sick sense of thorough troubleshooting, to the point that it's a complete non-issue.  I remember one day telling my self, "Getting pissed off about it is worthless and just makes me an ass.  So I'd better learn to start at one end and work it all the way through."  Same with pedals.  I never let something like a pedal beat me up.  It's not worth it.  I'm still just as passionate about it as ever.

...Also I still feel like a guitarist first, pedal guy second.  When I start to sense I'm getting nowhere, a few licks gets me back in the mood. 

You'll get there.  

[trjones1]

I just check, then double check, then triple check

I think that's the key.

[pazuzu]

you guys are awesome for all the positive responses. like i said, i actually debugged my first circuit tonight. usually i just give in, smash it, and go back to my guitar>cable>amp. i have never been a pedal guy. i do too many shows to add variables in my signal chain that can go wrong. but it's so fun to build.

that being said, i got my matsumin up and running, and i feel a lot better about my success rate since it's now 4 out of 10 on the first try. so now i just need to get to debugging instead of smashing shit when it doesn't work.

[Mugshot]

im happy that all of my builds so far has been a success, and i have had very minimal struggle troubleshooting any of them that seemed not to work on the first try.

oh well, these are mostly gain-based pedals and some tremolo and delays. im not yet brave enough to dabble in complex signal processing 

[deadastronaut]

i spend so much time on  breadboarding, that i hardly actually build/box anything until i know its 100percent sorted out...which of course takes time...

but in the long run it does save time and money and a lot of headaches..

ive built many things that are not quite what i was after..so its breadboard all the time now and mod to my ears.....

perseverence,determination,=success...mostly..

oh and yes i resort to alcohol a lot....

[petemoore]

  A guy I worked with said "don't ever let it beat you''.
  As in ''beat you down'' or 'defeat', ''it'' only wins when you give up.
  Debugging is a brick wall, but since there's a power supply, all can be determined by subjecting it to tests.
  One test I've made a few times is whether I've spent way too much time on X project, a number of them failed because I gave up.
  A number of them were later ressurected from problems when my debugging chops improved, labeling the dead boards is recommended, there were a few I couldn't remember what they were. That too can usually be re-ferreted out with study. 

[PRR]

Success on first full test, growing from 50% to 98%.

BUT I build and test in stages. Line-cord and power transformer..... lights go out and I smell smoke, fix that. Rectifier cap..... boom? DC? Right polarity? Hang some semi-heavy load for an hour, does it smell hot? First stage, are DC voltages right? Does signal get through?

Note that I am an old point-to-point guy. PCBs encourage putting most of the thing together before you put any electrons through. (Even then, on new-design I will often stuff and test in stages.)

Notorious "ooops"es:

Changed from FWB to CT PT, did not re-think the connections. Expected 410V, was seeing 666++V before I managed to shut it down.

Wired up a 120V:12V transformer. As 12V:120V. Plugged the 12V side into 110V. Lights got dim, big hummm.

Designed and build a 2-part system: audio compressor plus its monitoring meter. Went to connect the two sections together...... the meter needed a 0-2V signal, the limiter was biased-up at +15V making a 15V-17V signal.

7-part preamp. Worked fine on the bench. Put the cover on, mounted it in the classroom, ZAP!! Electric shock!! I hate electrocuted students laying around. Opened-up, all looks fine, tests safe. "Finally" realized that the cover-screw was hitting a power lug.

My most recent major build, tested in stages, worked all along, except with everything going it squealed when TREB was full-up. I already knew this could not be a mis-connection. The queer sound of the squeal suggested layout issues. I poked a pencil between TREB and VOL wires, squeal got worse. I pushed the wires apart, squeal was cured.

And then there are the simple near-failures and utter-failures.

I'm wiring a heater. I took the screw out, made the connections, put the screw in, and dropped it. And dropped it. And dropped it. And dropped it. And dropped it. And dropped it.

I put up a new mailbox last week. Post+box kit that had to be screwed together. Tonight I go out and the box is half off. Back screw is missing! Front screw is missing!! Did I really hang it with NO screws? Too cold and dark to explore my failure tonight.

[StephenGiles]

"BUT I build and test in stages" says PRR

Haven't I been saying that as well?  That's the only way in my view. Then you might just be able to build something that won't fit into a 1590 whatever but will fit into a rack box