How much power do you (I) need?

[El Heisenberg]

It is the delay.

What problems would daisy chaining too many pedlas cause??

Anyway the delay is the prob. 

[JKowalski]

Charge pumps usually have decent to excellent efficiencies. They shouldn't draw much more power then they output. The PT2399 takes about 30mA or so I believe... I would be surprised if the effect's total current draw was more than 50mA.

If you are sure it's the problem measure the current draw. It's a simple process. I agree that it sounds like something else is up other than power capability.

But considering the size of your board, an upgrade to 2A wouldn't hurt (though it may not fix the problem you are having) and I doubt you would need to think about it again unless you have noise problems (which can be a problem with so many daisy chained effects) If you do upgrade, the two supply plan is better than one. That way you can plug your noisy pedals + low gain pedals in one supply and high gain / high sensitivity pedals in the other.

[El Heisenberg]

^ indeed i think ill do that later.

But right now im kinda relieved it isnt too little power. I have no noise. But Its just this damn delay! Its weird that it starts to lower the entire supply voltage!!



Its not just a PT-80 delay. Its the pt-80 delay AND the SHecho. So the charge pump goes into the 12v and 5v regs to power all the pt-80 stuff AND the holtek chip and RAM chip. I only used a 3PDT to do this. I'd need a 4PDT to switch the 5v power supplies but could that be it??

[El Heisenberg]

The delay is drawing 112ma!!!!


Also, my fat boot: 70ma!!! It has a bright UV LED in it tho...

My Rats LED is very bright i used a really low resistor for it. The Rat was 17ma bypassed, 70ma on. The big muff has a mini led in it and it only takes 9ma.

Im surprised im using so much juice! Ive only measured half the board so far. But i think even if the rest drew 100ma each, id still have enough power

[jasperoosthoek]

The LED current of my effects are limited to about 2mA. That is bright enough for me. I have a freak LED in my FF that is a lot brighter even though it draws the same current and came from the same batch as the other identical LEDs.

[Thomeeque]

The delay is drawing 112ma!!!!


Also, my fat boot: 70ma!!! It has a bright UV LED in it tho...

My Rats LED is very bright i used a really low resistor for it. The Rat was 17ma bypassed, 70ma on. The big muff has a mini led in it and it only takes 9ma.

Im surprised im using so much juice! Ive only measured half the board so far. But i think even if the rest drew 100ma each, id still have enough power

Oh man, I had no idea that you would "spend" 50mA on status LED!

In this case you maybe need more power - my advice would be to reduce LEDs current instead (up to 10mA should be enough for any kind of LED working as a status indicator, 1-2mA for low current types), but it's your choice.

About pros and cons of daisy chain read e.g. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=329619

Edit: Btw. simple LED switching generates pikes into supply rails as well - another good reason why to reduce LEDs current.

I use one PSU for all those effects, but I use "star" wiring.. Actually two star wiring - one "star" for analog and one for digital pedals (plus I separately filter DC for every digital pedal) - see more here - no issues so far.

T.

[El Heisenberg]

"One Spot this. One Spot that. One Spot this"

Why does everyone like that piece of crap? All I get is "HUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMM" from it just powering any ONE pedal. AND it measured 13 volts!


I cut off the DC plug to use it in my daisy chain. That's how worthless it was to me. Worth just the plug. People who use this must be using commercial pedals that have special filtering in them. I remember using a GGG reverb that had a Bat** diode giving it power. I could use the noisiest most unusable wall wart I had, one for charging a phone, and the pedal was totally quiet. But used the One Spot and it STILL gave me crazy noise.

I'd have never made my own supply if the One Spot had done EVEN CLOSE to what it's supposed to. Even back when my supply was real hummy from how close the transformer was, it was still drastically less noise than the One Spot. Not even noise that you had to put a muff on to hear tho. The one spot gave crazy "muff level" noise when NO pedals were on and just the power connected and part of the ground! RIP OFF!!

[jefe]

The vast majority of people who use One Spots are not having problems with humming, so it could be something with your rig.

[jacobyjd]

Yeah...the hum problem is not likely to have been the 1-Spot. Then again, you probably shouldn't be daisy-chaining that many pedals together, so isolated would be the way to go.

I look at it this way: if you have to calculate the current needs of what you've got on your board, you need more.

[El Heisenberg]

No, the problem was with the one spot.


I should've clarified, I bought the one spot back when I had like 4 pedals. This was like when i JUST started, so like June 08??? Couldn't get rid of the hum. Had to use Battery power. Since then, I kept trying and trying to use it. Even after I solved my battery problem by building my own supply. Because people kept saying "well everyone has no problems, it must be YOU." Like they can't admit that maybe not every unit works, and that the guys who make One Spot aren't perfect and maybe the product isn't all the good. Finally I gave up and scraped it for the plug prolly about 8 months ago


BUT I've also been told this is VERY common problem with one spots and reviews screaming NOT to buy this and to use batteries. Reviews EVERYwhere saying the one spot is terrible because of the noise.

Someone else also told me that it could've been defective. But from what I read, there are lots of em out there. The thing costs what 10 dollars??? I wasn't too surprised that it was bunk, but I was shocked at how many people love this thing. At first I thought it was just marketing. Paying people to say that stuff.


The One Spot has been gone for a year now. This rig never saw that one spot, and I never daisy chained more than 5 pedals with it. Like I said, the telephone charger AC adapter gave less (less) noise than the one spot. I used the one spot on a Big Muff, GGG digital reverb KIT, a LPB-1, and orange squeezer. Nothing wrong witht he rig cos they all worked fine on battery power and I could daisy chain them with the telephone charger and get less noise. NONE through the Reverb. But CRAZY noise through the One Spot. I'm positive it was not me. It was the product. Bad product. Do not buy. Cheaply made. Either if it broke on it's way to me, or if the problem was when it was built. THe DC was totally unregulated. It sounded like rectified AC thats it.  


I still don't beleive what you guys say. There must be something WRONG with YOUR one spots to make em work CORRECTLY.


My rig is totally fine. It's comsuming too much power cos of the super LEDs. THe UV LEDs and all. I wanted my pedal board to light up like christmas. So I could play in the dark. I found people comming over and playing the rig while I drum and they're blinded by the pedal boards LEDs. Messin up their fancy metal shred solos. I laugh, start playin disco beats and say "If ya didn't try so hard, ya wouldn't look so dumb!".




But I think I also might have a problem with the charge pump and the Delay unit. Cos, I dunno if the charge pump can supple power to the PT2399, the RAM chip and the Holtek reverb chip on top of the compander and the opamp. It eats the most current, 112ma, but is it that the charge pump cant supply enough to all that, or I just need more isolated supplies? I WILL be building more supplies for the board, but I just wanna know if the charge pump had ANYTHING to do with this??

[El Heisenberg]

ah about the One Spot. I just found it. I actually hadn't cut the thing off. I use it to power an old cheap CHEAP Casio keyboard from like 1995! And....there's a tiny bit of HUM but I didn't care about it. It sits off in another room.

One thing I also remembered is that after plugging the one spot in ANYWHERE in the room, I would get hum in any amp or pedal rig or even stereo that I had in the room. The One Spot could NOT be plugged in anywhere in the room or else EVERYTHING would get the HUM.

UNBELIEVABLE! I can't see how so many people like these things. If there are so many factory defects out there, which I'm sure there are, seeing all the crappy feedback about it on sites that sell it like Amazon and Guitarcenter.com and MusiciansFriend etc. 

[El Heisenberg]

eh, think I gotta eat my words now.



I guess all the negative reviews were from people like me, who had their power strip too close to the pedals??

I powered everything starting from the WAH, off the One Spot. This was really cos thats where I had to connect two daisy chain cables together, so I split it up there.

No hum      (embarassed faces)


I'm gunna have to stick the entire one spot in the same enclosure as the transformer so I can switch the entire board on at the flip of a switch.

I will try another isolated supply later, and power the stuff with digital in it like the OC-2 or Delay, or Mobius Trip.





But I'm still wondering about the way I'm powering the Delay with the Charge Pump? And I pushing it too hard?

[El Heisenberg]

I been playing around and I notice if I get the guitar like within 6 feet of the One Spot I get that hum. That's what it was the whole time!!!

Guess everyone who had the same problem was playing too close to the power outlet.

They should like tell you or label it. Not to play so close to it.

[Perrow]

I been playing around and I notice if I get the guitar like within 6 feet of the One Spot I get that hum. That's what it was the whole time!!!

Guess everyone who had the same problem was playing too close to the power outlet.

They should like tell you or label it. Not to play so close to it.

I'm guessing you don't use humbucker pickups.

[jefe]

BUT I've also been told this is VERY common problem with one spots and reviews screaming NOT to buy this and to use batteries. Reviews EVERYwhere saying the one spot is terrible because of the noise.

Batteries are simply not an option for me. I don't even put battery clips in my pedals. I've been using various kinds of adapters and "power bricks" for about 25 years, and I always find a way to get rid of the hum.. move further away from the amp, turn my body away from the amp, turn off the overhead lighting, etc. HOWEVER - it should be noted that I'm not a gigging musician, just a bedroom player and occaisional jammer. People who play out at different venues on a regular basis have to deal with these humming problems differently, I'm sure. I know one guy who uses a Voodoo Lab Pedal Power 2 (I've got one of these too, works great), and he has very few problems at the various bars and clubs he plays at.

I been playing around and I notice if I get the guitar like within 6 feet of the One Spot I get that hum. That's what it was the whole time!!!

Well, glad you figured that out! 

[petemoore]

  Re: How much power do you (I) need?
 well, if you're pretty good at calculating: A Least a little more than you think you need.
 If you're really good at calculating, the answer: A little more than you think you need, say >10%, isn't needed because the questions are posed in ways that circuit analysis calculates answers better than distant others can provide.
 From a battery, a DMM, and a circuit, you have and can get:
 A floating power source voltage, say 9vdc for discussion, ah already 1 number to work with.
 A loaded power source voltage say 8vdc?: Battery won't last, stick the DMM between the PS and the load, measure the current, should be kinda high.
 Repeat for each circuit individually, then add the current #'s noted.
 ...or get a PS which can supplies morgan enough current for all, [check for PS non-short conditions] and place all the loads on that PS w/DMM measuring current.
 Which brings to ground loop if ground loop is possible. Making ground loop impossible [lift all ground loops] is the one way, other approaches attempt to peel the 'correct' layer while noise-onion-peeling, while retaining a GL or ground loops.
 This can work fine, unless [or until?] the 'other onion layer' gets 'tagged' and is 'it' for the 'new' noise layer, likelihoods of noise onion tears involve whens and wheres that can't exactly be known, some general rules of 'noise' and 'quiet' can be used when ground loops are acting as input:
 Right next to HT wire or wires [pretty good chance the GL will pick something up].
 Inside a faraday cage there's little/no chance of getting much through a GL, unless you bring a transmitter or transmitters to provide signal to GL pickup.
 There's always 'something' [noisy] in the air or vaccuum to pick up, a more sensative PU/or amplification input may be required to find it and make it discernable, that or increased amplitude of the 'something'.
 By just sticking a battery to a circuit supply, a set of onion layers is 'magically' [batteries sold separately] removed:
  Ground loop
  DC ripple
  Anything else that noise from a PS would have to offer as signal input.
  Some of these echoes are spikey and power hoarders, don't tell the other pedals, and use an independant factory supply or other supply [ayOwn risk] for each ''gobbler[s'', allow them to consume in a separate setting.
  It's like whak a mole until the ground loops are lifted, the ripple isn't bothersome, the spikes are isolated/separated.
  Noise source turns on over here, off over there, on in three other places, waves mix, cancel, change amplitude, are impeded...a finger can't be put on 'noise'...there are sources and sensative inputs, make the source strong enough [and in a freq we can detect], or the input sensative enough.. =  signal.     
  We've improved our abilities of producing and detecting signals recently.

[El Heisenberg]

I been playing around and I notice if I get the guitar like within 6 feet of the One Spot I get that hum. That's what it was the whole time!!!

Guess everyone who had the same problem was playing too close to the power outlet.

They should like tell you or label it. Not to play so close to it.

I'm guessing you don't use humbucker pickups.

Nope. I don't have one guitar with single coils. Wish I did. I don't really like the sound of humbuckers at all.

[jasperoosthoek]

Can you split the humbuckers? This doesn't work as well with all humbuckers. Some sound better split than others.

[El Heisenberg]

I have a ricenbacker. A rickenbacker 330 (i think) copy made by orlando. It had humbuckers that were tapped already seymour duncan style. I have push pull volume pots to switch them into parallel but not single coils. They were way too quiet as single coil. The guitar was owned by Paul Gilbert before me. Sold it outta his huge collection at a store here.

I have another guitar where i used two opposite polarity single coils from a cheap yamaha to make a humbucker for a guitar i bought at wall mart that only had a bridge pickup. I ended up wiring the new neck pickup in parallel. I didnt want a guitar with both humbucker and single coil.

Ie been meanin to get a squire strat but every one ive played feels like crap and wont stay in tune. And to top it off they feel all weirdly balanced when you wear em. Gotta sit down.. 40 bucks at wal mart is way better spent than 120 for the squire.

[arawn]

couple of comments.
    1 House power is almost never good much less perfect, when playing out test everything the tester is like 5 or 6 dollars at walmart.
     2 Check the ground rod at your home and the line connected to it, it will be bare copper about 8 or 12 guage. Make sure there is no corrosion and that everything is tight.

Bad grounds equal bad noise!