DIY Looper - Mobius Trip vs Payback

the3secondrule · January 14, 2011, 12:08:09 AM

Hey all,

I'm looking to get a little insight from y'all as to which of these builds is reccomended.

looking at parts availability, build complexity and ease of use.

I notice the Mobius Trip project on GGG specifies the ISD1000a chip - smallbear stock the ISD1020p. interchangeable?

Will probably be looking to get a board etched for which ever looper I go for...

Cheers!

J

El Heisenberg · January 14, 2011, 12:52:10 AM

Never built a payback but want to.

As for mobius trip, the chip at small bear is specifically stocked for this project. I have mine and it does what it does. Payback has more features but i couldnt find the chip fo the life of me.

If you find some buy an extra for me!

El Heisenberg · January 14, 2011, 12:53:08 AM

Look up some topics here about its stomp switching. Theres a certain way to wire the switched for stomp friendly use

the3secondrule · January 29, 2011, 08:10:01 PM

what layout did you use for the mobius - perf or strip board, or did you get a PCB?

Taylor · January 29, 2011, 08:21:02 PM

The IC used in the first Payback is very pricey. 30 bones on ebay. The one used in the second Payback is very hard to find outside of the surface mount version.

So as far as availability, the Mobius will be a lot easier to get the parts. But the payback has more features.

I also like a voltage starve knob on any of these - use a 1k pot between the 5v supply and the recorder chip, and you have a speed knob. You can pitch loops up or down, and get some grimy sounds with longer recording time.

the3secondrule · January 30, 2011, 12:34:13 AM

hmmm, it is looking like the Mobius is going to be the more practical of the two. so, anyone got a layout? perf/vero?

El Heisenberg · January 31, 2011, 10:20:53 AM

Eh... Taylor, you had me do that with the mobius trip already. I ended up with weird stuff happening. The chip can store multiple recordings, and when I slowed or sped up a loop by starving the 5v to the chip I'd get weird stuff like the thing switching off and turning back on playing a loop I recorded three plays ago...if that makes sense. so i ditched it.

I did mine on perf and stuffed it in a 1590b with a tone control. the tone control is simple enough to do that you should do it..

it's one of my favorite pedals.

More people should build it and post about it

If you use in line sockets you can put caps and resistors under the IC to save space

caress · January 31, 2011, 10:43:02 AM

Quote from: Taylor on January 29, 2011, 08:21:02 PM
The IC used in the first Payback is very pricey. 30 bones on ebay. The one used in the second Payback is very hard to find outside of the surface mount version.

So as far as availability, the Mobius will be a lot easier to get the parts. But the payback has more features.

I also like a voltage starve knob on any of these - use a 1k pot between the 5v supply and the recorder chip, and you have a speed knob. You can pitch loops up or down, and get some grimy sounds with longer recording time.

add an LFO to that and you've got yourself a... lo-fi loop junky!

El Heisenberg · January 31, 2011, 10:49:46 AM

Quote from: caress on January 31, 2011, 10:43:02 AM
Quote from: Taylor on January 29, 2011, 08:21:02 PM
The IC used in the first Payback is very pricey. 30 bones on ebay. The one used in the second Payback is very hard to find outside of the surface mount version.

So as far as availability, the Mobius will be a lot easier to get the parts. But the payback has more features.

I also like a voltage starve knob on any of these - use a 1k pot between the 5v supply and the recorder chip, and you have a speed knob. You can pitch loops up or down, and get some grimy sounds with longer recording time.

add an LFO to that and you've got yourself a... lo-fi loop junky!
poop

If you don't get the crazy switching and loop changing behavior I did.

Taylor · January 31, 2011, 02:08:39 PM

Quote from: caress on January 31, 2011, 10:43:02 AM

add an LFO to that and you've got yourself a... lo-fi loop junky!

Well, the Payback already has vibrato, and that's what I added the starve knob to. Vibrato's fun, but the sample rate knob is more exciting to me.

It's true that if you starve it too far it will glitch out, so a proper value pot must be chosen to keep from going too far. I found I had about an octave of pitch change I think with the ISD2560, could be different with different chip series.

the3secondrule · January 31, 2011, 02:43:46 PM

Quote from: El Heisenberg on January 31, 2011, 10:20:53 AM

I did mine on perf and stuffed it in a 1590b with a tone control. the tone control is simple enough to do that you should do it..

Any chance you could post your perf layout, El Heisenberg?

benl560 · January 31, 2011, 04:46:04 PM

so how "lo-fi" is the playback on the mobius? i watched a couple vids of the zvex lofi and wasnt terribly impressed with the playback. but maybe that was just the modulation or the people making the demo. ive been wanting to build one for awhile just to see though

Taylor · January 31, 2011, 04:48:59 PM

Well, it's an answering machine chip. Sot it's fairly lo fi. You can set the levels so that it's cleaner, but it's never going to sound hi fi like a Boss looper or similar.

benl560 · January 31, 2011, 07:14:51 PM

well yeah. i just meant, in your guys opinion, is it very usable? i didnt know if it would be lofi like setting a cell phone in front of an amp or something.
guess ill just have to make it and see...

Taylor · January 31, 2011, 08:06:57 PM

If you're not impressed with the sound quality of the Lo Fi Loop Junky, you'll react the same way to this.

To me, it's very useful, because I like weirdo garbled lo fi sounds. But if you don't feel that way about music, then it may not be usable to you.

benl560 · January 31, 2011, 09:59:37 PM

well, ill just build it anyway. its rock and roll, right?

maybe it will fit right in. ive been playing with alot with funkey oscilations lately anyway

El Heisenberg · February 01, 2011, 10:04:38 AM

I use it to jam by myself. Getting the loops time right is hard. Mechanical switches make it harder. So i really just use it to do exactly what youre seein in the youtube vids.

The sound is lo fi, but i cant really hear whats so bad about it. And its easier to tell your loop from the guitar.

I used a 1k pot when i was messing with the thing and starving the voltage. I guess a 500 ohm pot might do it without the crazy crap i got.

As for perf layout i didnt draw up any layout. Too much work im already building a circuit! I just start to do it and then its done. You gotta kinda look at the schem and imagine how youre gunna lay every block or portion out and then just wing it. Easy to fix mistakes. Just use a socket for the IC.

I do remember using two boards. I did this to keep the digital parts seperate from the analog.

benl560 · February 01, 2011, 11:49:56 AM

Ok. Cool. I'm gonna runthis by you guys to see what you think.
How hard/easy/insane would it be to add an effect loop to the playback for eq or delay or whatever, just to add to the zanneyness?

Just a thought but it would prob be cool.

Taylor · February 01, 2011, 11:08:33 PM

Shouldn't be hard. You could put your loop in between the play volume wiper and the point it's supposed to connect to the PCB. That's a pretty good idea actually.

benl560 · February 02, 2011, 04:48:46 PM

awesome taylor. sorry for my elementary electronics, but that will give me control over the volume post effect without the need for additional circutry?
i will try it when i order up the parts. and sorry to 3secondrule for hijacking your thread

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DIY Looper - Mobius Trip vs Payback