Pedalboard Controller

[vendettav]

Hey guys, how is it going?

So seeing my pedal board grow slowly i was thinking, is it possible to meak a cheap FX looper with presets. like for example you'd hook all the pedals/chains and then chose the first preset: FX1+FX2, second: FX1+FX3, third: FX2+FX4, fourth: FX 5 etc...

Do you need to get into the midi area??? Any help is appreciated

[jkokura]

You might think about PM'ing Nikolay (N Audio) - he builds these things all the time. He might be willing to point you in the right direction.

From what I remember, it has to do with using a Relay based bypass and then controlling all your inputs and outputs through one switcher, so you'll likely need to learn how to program the controller in the least.

Jacob

[vendettav]

ok so i got this http://www.geofex.com/Article_Folders/ASMOP/uiprog.pdf
and it was a nie read actually. so the question still remains.. how are you gonna do it? like what chips to get, what LCD, how to program the chip and whatnot. this is what I wanted in the first place so if anybody could provide some info

[jasperoosthoek]

Check out the Arduino. If microcontrollers are new to you then the Arduino is a good choise. It is an open source microcontroller platform with many libraries and people willing to help. There are different types of boards for various purposes.

The basic Arduino board costs about 20 bucks and has a USB input to program it. But when it is programmed it functions stand alone.

Another way forward is to use dip swiches for presets and use CMOS logic to interface to the relays (by transistors driving the relays). That way you go around microcontrollers altogether.

[artifus]

would it not be possible to build a simple passive switching box using rotary or dip switches to 'program' presets for each stomp switch?

[digi2t]

Hey Ven, keep your eye on EBay for one of these;

It's a 360 Systems Audio Matrix 16. It's old kit, but it works amazingly well. I use 2 of them in my rack, one for my digital effects, and the other for analog. Basically it's an audio path router. The bonus is that not only is it programmable, it's MIDI controllable as well. I use an FCB1010 to control mine. You can even switch the order of effects. Up to 99 program presets. I really don't know why they stopped building these units. You have 16 inputs and 16 outputs. I got my units for under 150 bucks each., and if the opportunity presents itself, I'll get another as a spare. They are the brain behind my entire setup. Just becareful though, there are 2 models, one uses ELCO style connectors, and the other is standard 1/4" jacks. The ELCO style model has the advantage of being able to program stereo paths. I run my rig in stereo as well, but I just have dedicated left and right i/o's. No big deal, and I can use normal patch cables. The switching is absolutely silent as well. Great units, I highly recommend them. At the price that you can get one of these babies, just not worth the trouble to build anything. I know, I tried using a MIDI relay board from Highly Liquid. Never even came close to what I can do with these puppies.

Cheers,
Dino

[bluesman1218]

Very cool, Dino, very cool!

[jasperoosthoek]

Crap, now I want one too . I happen to own a FSB1010, I bought it second hand, a bargain. Only three months old when I got it with all the plastic protection film still intact... Never used it, even forgot about it! I wanted to go digital years ago but never invested the time. Busy job, not enough time to play guitar let alone build effects.

[vendettav]

Holy..!!! that's some nice review Dano.. even though you pumped my GAS, I'm actually happy seems like I'll have to forget about the DIY idea and just wait till I move to USA (hopefully this year) and nab one

ahh you know what??? Now im a bit pissed off... http://cgi.ebay.com/360-Systems-AM-16-B-Audio-Crosspoint-Switcher-16x16-/120682152026?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1937805a#ht_2862wt_698

so want one!!!!

[jasperoosthoek]

$112.50 buy it now, that's a bargain. Unless you are outside the US and have to pay for shipping and customs.

I'm in Chicago in May, maybe I'll find a place where I can pick one up.

[vendettav]

I swear I'd buy it now!!! only that Im in middle asia or whatever it's called... I can't really buy it cause the shipping is gonna cost more than the item itself.. that's why I hate this country dammit!!

can't wait till i move to USA

[digi2t]

Hi guys,

The one on EBay is the model that uses the 56 pin (that's right... 56 pin!) ELCO connectors. One for the input, and one output. This would mean that you would also have to construct some sort of patchbay to interface your 1/4" jacks with the unit.

As I mentioned earlier, there is also another version of this unit that uses only 1/4" jacks. It is simply known as the AM 16, with no "/B" after the "16". The AM 16 is all 1/4" jack in's and out's. Other than the ELCO / 1/4" jack difference, the ELCO "B" model also has the capacity to run as a dedicated Stereo unit (via internal jumper, pairing all channels), and also has input volume trimmers. Personally, I found all of these features useless, since all my effects already have volume controls, and by running separate channels anyway I can run in stereo OR left/right mono signals (one effect left, another effect right). Also, I know for sure that if you don't want to do MIDI, these units also provide a 1/4" input of a momentary contact footswitch, which allows you to "flip" through your programmed presets.

Funny though, I've never found a manual for the AM 16, although the "B" model is readily available. The programming and operation is basically the same though. The manual is here; www.deepsonic.ch/deep/manuals/360systems_am16b_manual.pdf . I was going through my records, and I found that I purchased my first unit for 100$ US, and my second for 149$ US, so I guess you can expect to pay somewhere in that neighbourhood, providing you catch one! Just be sure to know which model you're looking at.
Here's a pic of my two units in action;


The backside;


And the whole shebang;


I'm using Hosa snake cables between the effects and the AM 16's. 8 1/4" mono cables in each snake. They're not too expensive, and REALLY cuts down on the cable clutter. The reason I use 2 units is because one is dedicated to effects presets (MIDI channels 1-5), and the other to audio paths (MIDI channels 6-10). I have 2 FCB1010's as well, again, each dedicated to paths, or effects presets. Yet, the whole rig is daisy chained, so I can run the rig on one MIDI line. It's really nice now, once I find a particular sound/effects chain I like, I program it into the AM 16, and then plug my laptop into the FCB1010 and assign a preset to it. That's it. Whenever I hit that preset, I get that chain, instantly. The ONLY little hiccup I ran into was some crosstalk between channels i.e. faint high-gain pedal sound bleeding into a selected clean chorus preset, but that was my fault because I neglected to cut off the unused channels in the programs audio path. Once I figured this out, there is no detectable crosstalk beween any of my patches or audio paths. These units are VERY quiet, even when switching at insane volume levels. And trust me, I can do insane. I'm using a QSC 1450 power amp at the end of this sucker. In stereo at 8ohms, I'm putting out 250 watts RMS... each side  .

Cheers,
Dino

[digi2t]

CRAP!!!! I just missed one!

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/360-SYSTEMS-Audio-Matrix-16-16x16-Crosspoint-Switcher-/280622461321

89 frickin' dollars... AAAAAAHHHHHHGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

The search continues....

[digi2t]

One more tip guys (I just remembered this). The ELCO  "B" model has 12 programming pushbuttons on the front panel, NOT including the power ON/OFF switch. The 1/4" jacks unit only have 10, NOT including the ON/OFF switch. Easy to spot which unit you're looking at in a vague EBay pic, if the backside isn't shown.

Cheers,
Dino

[jasperoosthoek]

Thanks man!

The 16/B versions seem to be much easier to find. I can get one right now. Would you advise against that one as you will have to create a lot of connections?

[vendettav]

dammit that's nice... i mean you have some REALLY NICE rig!!
ahhh wish i could afford it. but well slowly going towards that. might want to look for one when im in states and damn that one was 89 bux!!!!

to Jasper: well i can see making a patchbay but it's gonna cost some money you know for all the jacks

[digi2t]

Yeah, making a patchbay is not ideal. More connections, more wiring = more problems, noise, $, etc. You're right Jasper, the B models are more plentiful, not really sure why. I guess the ELCO connectors just put off folks that want these units for straight forward PNP audio purposes. I love my units. They're built solid, and work really well. Hell, these units were only on the market between 1989 and 1991, and mine are still going strong. IMHO, they could put them back on the market today, and still sell a bunch of them.

If you really want one that bad, then go for the B model. The ELCO plugs are still readily available. Personally, I recommend you wait till another 1/4" unit pops up, and snag it. If I don't beat you to it  . I had to wait almost a year between my first and second units, but absolutely no regrets.

Cheers,
Dino

[jasperoosthoek]

The unit I'm looking at has matching connectors with a bundle of wires soldered to them So I was thinking, I might just get a 16 patch cables and cut them up. Then they could be soldered to the connector easily.

I'm going to check how much it costs. If it is a real bargain then I might not be able to resist .

[digi2t]

You got a link Jasper? Promise not to buy it, just want to take a peek at the connector.  I was looking at the manual, and on page 6 it states that it will accept unbalanced connections as well. Personally, I wouldn't waste my time or $ with patch cords, it would be to ungainly. Put this sucker in a rack, and get a blank 1U filler plate. Drill 32 holes, and install 32 1/4" jacks. Use 22 AWG wire in twisted threes, and make 2 harness' to the unit. "+" to the input, "-" and GND together. Then mount the 1U plate underneath the switcher in the rack. Just keep it away from a power amp, if you're using one (notice my 2 units are at the top, amp at the bottom, aviod any EM interference from the transformer).

Cheers,
Dino

[jasperoosthoek]

PM sent.