Original Tube Screamer Diodes?

[mremic01]

I've been looking at a lot of TS808 and TS9 schematics and I've noticed that they're very inconsistent with which diodes they use stock. A lot of them have two 1N914s, but I see a lot of other diodes out there too. I took apart my OD808 to see what was in that and it had some red and grey ones that I couldn't make out. From doing some searches, the consensus seems to be that as long as they're silicon, the actual kind of diodes don't matter too much tone-wise, but I'm curious to know what were used in the originals.

[R.G.]

The originals were unique in that the silicon pellets were actually hand made. The raw silicon was taken from beach sand at an undisclosed location in the tropics, and refined in a Japanese silicon foundry that only normally works for the largest Japanese semiconductor firms. An exception was made in this case, for obvious reasons - there were some very important people behind it. Once refined, the sillicon was hand-doped by master refiners in a manual process of painting the dopant onto the silicon die, baking it, then testing for reistivity and diffusion depth, and then hand painting the reverse polarity dopant.

It's not widely known, but there are two variants. In one, the N-type dopant was painted first, and in the other the P-type. The P-type-first diodes are much to be preferred, as the sound is much smoother, and infinitely better than those soulless machine-doped and diced commercial diodes. The N-first diodes are good, but not as sublime as the P-firsts.

When the junctions were just right, the dies themselves were wirebonded in a private semiconductor house in Iceland, where, on the night of a full moon, a group of seven Iclandic virgins climbed into thier semiconductor bunny suits and hand bonded the pellets, while a mounting crew got on with mounting the pellets. the full production run of P-first diodes was completed in one night, and flown off to the Maxon factory for the waiting PCBs.

It just goes to show, you want quality, you got to work for it.

[HOTTUBES]

LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Great reply R.G   !!!!   

[gtudoran]

Excellent story R.G, but didn't you forget something? The glass, the glass was made from a special sand that was brought from the end of our solar system ...how could you not mention that?

Best regards,
Gabriel Tudoran
Analog Sound

The originals were unique in that the silicon pellets were actually hand made. The raw silicon was taken from beach sand at an undisclosed location in the tropics, and refined in a Japanese silicon foundry that only normally works for the largest Japanese semiconductor firms. An exception was made in this case, for obvious reasons - there were some very important people behind it. Once refined, the sillicon was hand-doped by master refiners in a manual process of painting the dopant onto the silicon die, baking it, then testing for reistivity and diffusion depth, and then hand painting the reverse polarity dopant.

It's not widely known, but there are two variants. In one, the N-type dopant was painted first, and in the other the P-type. The P-type-first diodes are much to be preferred, as the sound is much smoother, and infinitely better than those soulless machine-doped and diced commercial diodes. The N-first diodes are good, but not as sublime as the P-firsts.

When the junctions were just right, the dies themselves were wirebonded in a private semiconductor house in Iceland, where, on the night of a full moon, a group of seven Iclandic virgins climbed into thier semiconductor bunny suits and hand bonded the pellets, while a mounting crew got on with mounting the pellets. the full production run of P-first diodes was completed in one night, and flown off to the Maxon factory for the waiting PCBs.

It just goes to show, you want quality, you got to work for it.

[twabelljr]

Soon diodes will be on E-bay being described as "Two Original P-type Beachsand Tubescreamer Diodes", with slight modifications to RG's awesome little story. Should be able to fetch quite a few dollars for a pair of those suckers!
To the OP, I don't know the answer to your question but RG's reply was funny as #%*!, especially with all the TS mojo hype out there.

[yeeshkul]

Gentlemen don't forget about the color factor - the blue. They were blue. None of those funny black diodes play that well.

[Electron Tornado]

Soooo, what you're saying is all that stuff about ground troll's teeth and unicorn horn was just BS? 

Kind of makes me have second thoughts about the vintage NOS unobtainium diodes. 

[mremic01]

From doing some searches, the consensus seems to be that as long as they're silicon, the actual kind of diodes don't matter too much tone-wise, but I'm curious to know what were used in the originals.

[Hides-His-Eyes]

I think the designation was 1n914, but the specification for those overlaps entirely with 1n4148.

[Perrow]

...Once refined, the sillicon was hand-doped by master refiners in a manual process of painting the dopant onto the silicon die...

Let's not forget, these people are the source of the term "dope heads".

[Paul Marossy]

The originals were unique in that the silicon pellets were actually hand made. The raw silicon was taken from beach sand at an undisclosed location in the tropics, and refined in a Japanese silicon foundry that only normally works for the largest Japanese semiconductor firms. An exception was made in this case, for obvious reasons - there were some very important people behind it. Once refined, the sillicon was hand-doped by master refiners in a manual process of painting the dopant onto the silicon die, baking it, then testing for reistivity and diffusion depth, and then hand painting the reverse polarity dopant.

It's not widely known, but there are two variants. In one, the N-type dopant was painted first, and in the other the P-type. The P-type-first diodes are much to be preferred, as the sound is much smoother, and infinitely better than those soulless machine-doped and diced commercial diodes. The N-first diodes are good, but not as sublime as the P-firsts.

When the junctions were just right, the dies themselves were wirebonded in a private semiconductor house in Iceland, where, on the night of a full moon, a group of seven Iclandic virgins climbed into thier semiconductor bunny suits and hand bonded the pellets, while a mounting crew got on with mounting the pellets. the full production run of P-first diodes was completed in one night, and flown off to the Maxon factory for the waiting PCBs.

It just goes to show, you want quality, you got to work for it.

So that then justifies the $1000 price tag on a "vintage" TS808. The magical qualities are the diodes! 

[MikeH]

You actually had me going until the second sentence. 

[R.G.]

From doing some searches, the consensus seems to be that as long as they're silicon, the actual kind of diodes don't matter too much tone-wise, but I'm curious to know what were used in the originals.

First of all, let me apologize. I couldn't help it. The devil that sits on my left shoulder twisted my ear until I gave in and typed what he said. 

By way of apology, the Ibanez info for the TS-9 says they're type MA-150. Looking up the Panasonic datasheet, they do seem to be a little odd, in that they're high-ish resistance for silicon diodes. They're definitely low-current, signal/switching diodes. However, the spec on the forward voltage at 10 and 100ma is the same as the spec on the 1N914 types that are ubiquitous. The 1N914 is a good replacement.

Excellent story R.G, but didn't you forget something? The glass, the glass was made from a special sand that was brought from the end of our solar system ...how could you not mention that?

um... yeah... I forgot to mention that this *particular* beach sand was analyzed and had trace concentrations of silicon isotopes only found in meteorite silica, and hence the suspicion is that the particular beach was formed by the weathering decomposition of a large non-metallic meteorite.  Isotope dating puts the earthfall of the source silica to 1.3-1.5Byr ago.

So they're **really** relics. Vintage? Hmph. My vintage is older than your vintage.   

[soupbone]

I've been looking at a lot of TS808 and TS9 schematics and I've noticed that they're very inconsistent with which diodes they use stock. A lot of them have two 1N914s, but I see a lot of other diodes out there too. I took apart my OD808 to see what was in that and it had some red and grey ones that I couldn't make out. From doing some searches, the consensus seems to be that as long as they're silicon, the actual kind of diodes don't matter too much tone-wise, but I'm curious to know what were used in the originals.

The originals were Toshiba 1S1588's.I used to get them from John Lewman at Effects Connection.He doesn't have anymore left. :icon_frown:I'm on the hunt to see where i can get some more at.If i find some I'll shoot you an email.-soupbone

[twabelljr]

Like this???

[mremic01]

First of all, let me apologize. I couldn't help it. The devil that sits on my left shoulder twisted my ear until I gave in and typed what he said. 

By way of apology, the Ibanez info for the TS-9 says they're type MA-150. Looking up the Panasonic datasheet, they do seem to be a little odd, in that they're high-ish resistance for silicon diodes. They're definitely low-current, signal/switching diodes. However, the spec on the forward voltage at 10 and 100ma is the same as the spec on the 1N914 types that are ubiquitous. The 1N914 is a good replacement.

[/quote]

That's ok, I pretty much assumed there would be a ton of people chiming in about there is no mojo in such and such and whatnot. It just kind of bugs me when there's that one little bit of historical info I can't find.

The originals were Toshiba 1S1588's.I used to get them from John Lewman at Effects Connection.He doesn't have anymore left. :icon_frown:I'm on the hunt to see where i can get some more at.If i find some I'll shoot you an email.-soupbone

Hmm, could it be that Ibanez was just inconsistent with which diodes they used, or did they switch to the MA-150s for the TS-9s?

[Paul Marossy]

The originals were Toshiba 1S1588's.I used to get them from John Lewman at Effects Connection.He doesn't have anymore left. :icon_frown:I'm on the hunt to see where i can get some more at.If i find some I'll shoot you an email.-soupbone

The only place I can think of looking is on ebay. Sometimes people are selling oddball electronics parts like that for reasonable prices.

[tubelectron]

Ah... The Sacro-Sainte Tube Screamer Mystique... I stay always amazed by the craze around this pedal !

I had 2 of them, including a TS9 I bought from a friend in 1979 or 80. The only one I have today is my DIY modified "Ibanèze Tubscrimeur" and a T-REX Alberta which is nothing more than another TS clone. I barely used/use them, because I feel that they "format" the sound like the regular TS and this is not my taste. I am probably an exception to the TS Craze... Well...

A+!

[Paul Marossy]

Hmm... if I could make some 1N4148 / 1N914 type diodes from moon dust, I might get rich. You could say that their performance was "stellar"! 

[CynicalMan]

Needs more quantum.

(Always makes me laugh  )