What Defines "Hand Built"?!

[Hides-His-Eyes]

It is possible that they assemble they pick and place the boards in NYC but I guess what you're ultimately being promised is that SOME of it was assembled in the US...

[EATyourGuitar]

a cadillac escalade is %100 china but it is assembled in the usa. the ceo's are notorious for moving as much over seas as possible without loosing the made in the usa marketing gimmick they push on patriotic unknowing republicans from land locked southern states.

on topic of you posting pics... as long as it didn't violate your non-disclosure contract or expose anyone to be a liar, then he has nothing to be mad about. if he is involved in false advertising and he knows it, but never made you sign a non-disclosure, then he knows nothing about business or ethics. quite honestly, he shouldn't be a business man. he should be in marketing or politics.

[tubelectron]

If recall well, when I worked for Eterna and Rolex (Vallée de la Bienne, CH), to be "stamped" swiss-made, a watch must had 50% of their parts made in Switzerland and the assembly had to be done in Switzerland. It was true 10 years ago, but I don't know if this rule is valid again today.

A+!

[markeebee]

Humans are only human, they make mistakes.  Robots are robotic, they tend to do stuff the same, all the time.

Why would hand built be better?

[R.G.]

Humans are only human, they make mistakes.  Robots are robotic, they tend to do stuff the same, all the time.
Why would hand built be better?

Your question is correct, and valid - and almost certain to be ignored. I wrote up a couple articles on "hand wired" amps and effects back when I was writing the column for Premier Guitar. The whole question is - whose hands? An experienced, skilled, unhurried craftsman who loves the work, or a minimum wage (whatever the minimum wage is in the locality) teenager who desperately wants to be somewhere else?

The same people who talk about "made in China by near-slave-labor" will go on about how good "hand made" is, not sensing the antithetical juxtaposition.

"Hand-[anything]" means you get a variable result; some are good, some are less good. Machine made is much more consistent. Whether consistently good or consistently bad depends on who's running the machine.

But "hand made", "hand wired" and so on have been so glorified in advertising that people have a near-Pavlovian response to equating "hand-[anything]"="good".

[petemoore]

  It is rarely completely self explanatory.
  The 'not' side is much easier to verify, something like SMD pretty much rules out the 'classic' definition of hand made.
 It seems the common perception consensus, at least here, has pretty well established that an SMD unit, to put it in mild terms, is well outside the definition of 'hand made'.

[artifus]

Humans are only human, they make mistakes.  Robots are robotic, they tend to do stuff the same, all the time.

as programmed by humans.

*edit*

What Defines "Hand Built"?!

it's about motive, intention, love, pride and integrity.

[R.G.]

Humans are only human, they make mistakes.  Robots are robotic, they tend to do stuff the same, all the time.

as programmed by humans.

Like I said, machine output is consistently good or consistently bad. Implicit in your statement is that some humans are better than others at [whatever it is]. What you can do is use your skilled, caring, intelligent, thoughtful, skilled, motivated, proud, skilled people to much greater effect if they set up and run the machines.

Use your highly effective, skilled humans carefully. You don't have an infinite supply. 

What Defines "Hand Built"?!

it's about motive, intention, love, pride and integrity.

No amount of motive, intention, love, pride or integrity can take the place of knowledge, skill and experience. They are complementary. Good results require both. No amount of love, integrity, motivation, or pride will let an uneducated beginner do successful brain surgery or rocket design. Or soldering for that matter.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

[artifus]

Implicit in your statement is that some humans are better than others at [whatever it is].

that was not my intention and i am unsure as to how you derived that implication from my statement.

[darron]

i even get upset with claimed "hand built" pedals where the PCB fabrication is outsourced... regardless of SMD, through hole, or pre-populated.

there's a local (to me) builder called MI audio, and on the site their slogan is "beyond boutique"... when you look inside an see a nest of cheap wiring and a solder masked board you know they did not build it themselves - so they are right - they are not boutique, they are now beyond it.


little fact: boutique from memory is from french to mean a 'small shop'. IE a cake boutique where the work is specialty and on small scale. hence expensive....





I've just started a new batch of 100+ pedals. i'll do all of the work myself except for the powder coating, I leave that to a professional. i think that's still hand-made by me....








In Australia we actually have a LAW which is similar to the topic...


I can call me pedals "made in australia" because I designed it, built it, and consider it my product. HOWEVER I can not legally call it "australian made".... I didn't make those capacitors and resistors, and they were not made in this country. therefore my pedal isn't legally "australian made".

[Paul Marossy]

i even get upset with claimed "hand built" pedals where the PCB fabrication is outsourced... regardless of SMD, through hole, or pre-populated.

Yeah, there is one company that I know of that will go absolutely ballistic if you say that they're pedals aren't really handmade because the PCB is made on a wave soldering machine and then someone *possibly* solders on the pots and/or jacks. The only "hand made" part of that is someone putting the PCB into the enclosure and putting the knobs on it.

Oh well, it's all good. This shows me that I can't continue on in this business ventrure. I think the guy showed his true colors already, so I can avoid much bigger headaches in the future.

[rotylee]

to me hand built / hard wired means it can be easily rewired and modified.
also not saying this company is slave labor but china certainly knows its buzz words.
http://www.kldguitar.com/TMB%2018K.htm

[R.G.]

I keep telling people, China has a good background in business. If you demand the cheapest crap they can make, they will sell it to you. If you demand quality and negotiate an acceptable price for it, they will sell that to you as well. Equating "Chinese" with "poor quality" is the same mistake the USA made in the 1960s and 1970s when eveyone used "made in Japan" as equivalent to "poor quality".

Likewise, equating "hand made" or "hand wired" with "extra good" is a mistake. It's advertising copy, which must by law be factually true, but is made as misleading as the advertiser can make it and stay out of court.

[gmoon]

What Defines "Hand Built"?!

Depends on your definition.  
(Good-ole circular logic.)

[Ice-9]

I build all my pedals weather there SMD or through hole the same way . I drill the enclosure and then I powder coat them with whatever colour i want, I design then make my own screen for printing any text or picture on the enclosure. I hand assemble a PCB that i designed (but the pcb itself i might get fabricated in china). The rest will then be all hand assembled and tested on a few different amps for any sound problems.

Now I didn't make the eclosure, Bare PCB or components, but does this mean there not hand made ? I think not, my concern is in quality so I would say my distinction really comes down to a different play on words. The difference being "Hand Made" and "Home Made" if you get what I mean.

[The Tone God]

I don't think how something is built be it by hand or machine matters at all. I think the only thing that matters is the level of quality assurance to make sure things are being done correctly.

Andrew

[Paul Marossy]

I don't think how something is built be it by hand or machine matters at all. I think the only thing that matters is the level of quality assurance to make sure things are being done correctly.

Andrew

It matters to me if it says "hand made in the USA" on it and the only thing that is "hand made" is putting the PCB into the enclosure and putting the knobs on it. That to me that is a false statement. That's like 5% of the product being "hand made". I don't know, it just bothers me.  

[Mac Walker]

It is amazing what the marketing guys seem to think they can get away with in the "information age".  Looking at their (Janglebox) website, it appears their original run (the black ones) may have been done in MA, but their newer product is completely done overseas.  Undoubtedly by pick and place machines in both cases, however.

In regards to the EHX comments, their boards are stuffed overseas and assembled in the U.S.  Check out the documentary  "Fuzz: The Sound that Revolutionized the World".  In it, Mike Matthews gives a plant tour, rails against the "labor racketeers" of the late seventies, and proudly introduces all of his FEMALE assemblers, along with the country they each are from (Guatemala, Ecuador, Mexico, etc.)

Really good stuff.....

[The Tone God]

It matters to me if it says "hand made in the USA" on it and the only thing that is "hand made" is putting the PCB into the enclosure and putting the knobs on it. That to me that is a false statement. That's like 5% of the product being "hand made". I don't know, it just bothers me.  

Does it matter where it's made ? Are they charging a premium for that "feature" ? If not I don't care and I think the majority of buyers don't either. IMHO when I see terms like "hand built" and bouteek I think it really just suggesting that there is a properly trained human in the process to ensure final QA. I believe that how or where a product is built does not matter if the QA is being enforced. Everything else is jumping around that issue (i.e. SMD vs. through hole, machine vs hand, pcb vs. hand wired, etc.).

I understand that you may not like the term being used and that it maybe be technically miss leading but does it really matter in the end ? I just can't get bent out of shape over this kind of stuff since it so irrelevant yet wide spread to the point of being meaningless if it was relevant to begin with. It just strikes me as one of those things that manufactures put in their ad copy when they don't have any other real features to offer.

I guess its all "meh" to me.

Andrew

[Hides-His-Eyes]

When was the last time someone on this forum (FSB is a different story) got bent up about ANOTHER tubescreamer claiming to be an "all new design"?

It's all the same nonsense.