70s Si fuzz not playing well with others?!?

[jpiddy118]

Hey everyone, longtime reader, first time poster...

I've built a handful of pedals from GGG, an Octavia, Rangemaster, and just yesterday a 70's "boutique fuzz" w/BC108s. With my LP custom, it nails Radiohead's "Airbag" riff, and with a strat, it's Gilmour Dark Side for days, but otherwise, can't get much else from it. Tried stacking it in front of my OCD (HP, gain 11:00ish), and before/after my Rangemaster... both sounded AWFUL, to the point where I thought something was wrong. Also, it doesn't seem to like my pedalboard's 9v supply.  Any tips/suggestions/advice? Got a set of NPN Ge's on the way to try in there too.

Thanks!

[jpiddy118]

Bump.... anyone??? Sorry if it's a noob post, but I couldn't find the answers anywhere.

Fixed the power supply issue by re-biasing to 4.5v on Q2 collector with my pedalboard supply, rather than battery or standalone Boss adapter that I used previously. Still only have one "sweet spot" that sounds great, but it's a full-boar stoner rock wall of thick fuzz, and only wants to see a clean amp... the slightest touch of OD from amp or OCD renders it useless. I like the sound for certain things, but don't want this box to be a one-trick pony.

Found this example... with a similar rig & the same pedal settings, this guy is getting a pretty wide range of tone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8NA2wgGjys
personally, i think my clone sounds better (smoother, thicker mids, less harsh) than his '70 at the same settings, but i'd like more versatility.

[MrTonesNZ]

I'm a bit of a noob myself. But my guess is your new fuzz is positive ground, and your other effects are negative. Have you tried using a separate power supply? Even battery. Kind of ironic, I have the exact opposite problem to you!

[wavley]

I'm a bit of a noob myself. But my guess is your new fuzz is positive ground, and your other effects are negative. Have you tried using a separate power supply? Even battery. Kind of ironic, I have the exact opposite problem to you!

I don't think that's the problem, BC108's are NPN

Did you socket the transistors?  Try switching them.  Did you buy a few to try out?  Even silicon transistors will vary quite a bit.  Did you measure the hfe and follow the guidelines for a fuzz face?  At this point it sounds like you have a functioning pedal, I think that it's just a matter a of tweaking it and finding the right combination of devices for q1/q2, I would probably just grab a bunch of npn transistors and swap them until you find a combo that you like, it's a tedious but in the end it's pretty rewarding.

Also, fuzz faces really only like to see a guitar as it's input so that kind of explains why it doesn't play well with others.  You might try taking a look at this http://www.muzique.com/lab/pickups.htm it's worked for a number of us around here.

[jpiddy118]

Thanks guys... it's NPN, as I stick with that for everything (including Ge's). Used sockets and tried a few Si's... 108s, 109s, and a lower gain pair that came from GGG. I prefer the 108s... didnt measure hFE, but they biased easily and sounded best. I've also tried both 0.1uF and 0.01uF output caps found in various schematics... ended up splitting the difference, 0.047uF gave the best of both worlds.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds great standalone (gtr>fuzz>clean amp), and after some tweaking i'm starting to dig the Rangemaster after it for leads... guess I was just expecting it to be more versatile and stackable, but i'm learning to love it as it is.

[vendettav]

hmm waht exactly does sound wrong??? was it too FARTY??

[jpiddy118]

When run into an overdriven amp or pedal (even slightly driven), it turns to mush. Farty, muddy, woofy, oversaturated, you name it. Nothing pleasant to the ear whatsoever. Rolling back the guitar volume helps clean things up, but then it defeats the purpose of stacking it. The only thing that works is the Rangemaster clone after it, and even that's touchy. I guess I should state that I like texture... touch of breakup on the amp, OCD for main dirt, Rangemaster for leads... was hoping the fuzz would be a nice flavor to add in there. Maybe I should try some Ge trannies and see if that does the trick.

[vendettav]

hmm i don't think you'd add the fuzz to the already overdriven amp (if it's heavily overdriven you know)

i had a similar effect with my FET booster where it'd make my pedal sound super farty! like not anywhere close to sounding "fine-ish" or acceptable. turns out i was overboosting it! :/

[jpiddy118]

Guess that would be my case too... maybe i'll try a lower gain Ge fuzz instead. Oh well, I still have a "Stoner rock in a box" pedal for those QOTSA covers

[superferrite]

Try backing off on your volume knob a bit.   Does that help?

[jpiddy118]

Backing the volume off does help, and this Si fuzz cleans up better than expected. I'm starting to think this is more about me getting used to an Si FF than anything to do with the build... might just be a bigger fan of Ge's (my limited experience has been with a Fulltone '69).

[Steben]

A fuzz is quite a heavy harsh effect on it's own...
The only good adaption is a clean to little power drive tube amp after the fuzz. NOT to much preamp gain at all, but power amp drive. In other words: very slight drive at LOUD power.
It wil compress signal a bit and render the preamp cleaner

[jpiddy118]

That's prob what i've been missing... when I think of late 60's cranked Marshalls a la Cream, Jimi, etc., I reach for my OCD with gain around 10-11 o'clock driving my clean-ish tube amp (GT Soul-o 50)... figured a fuzz before all that would add the texture that those cats got, but its trickier than i thought.

Also, popped in a pair of matched NPN OC140s this morning for comparison with the BC 108s... got the bias down to 5V without changing trimpots. Def smoother, wider range, stacked better with my pedals. I'll end up building another FF with them and using either when needed.

[Morocotopo]

Fuzz Faces are sensitive about what´s before and after them, the best use is guitar-FF-amp. To get it less farty, lower the input cap. if you put a buffer before you lose the vol pot cleanup and may get more trebly, if you plug it into another pedal it usually gets brighter. a little problematic, this one, but when it sounds good, it´s really good.