someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!

[artifus]

good idea, actually...but would be nice to have it all in one unit for durability.

i was kinda thinking a metal box, sloped front, with a crybaby shell bolted right to it.

for durability i would have thought that the more parts involved the more likely something may go wrong? like the all in one hi-fi vs separates. treadle most likely part to go wonky therefore make it easily replaceable? (and user tweakable? plus ldr/lfo input idea) just thinking outloud.

[Ry]

I've been on the trail of this pedal for 12 years.  I'm glad that I may be able to have a clone soon! 

[deadastronaut]

blimey you guys have found 2.. amazing,

[pinkjimiphoton]

hi rob...the amazing thing is they only made about 200, and i know of at least 5 that went out in trash from some local schools. 

but hopefully soon, everybody who wants one will be able to!!!! 

[deadastronaut]

5 that went out in trash from some local schools. 

but hopefully soon, everybody who wants one will be able to!!!! 

shame on them.......its going to be great to see an old phoenix rise out of the ashes!...good work guys!..

[pinkjimiphoton]

dude, i am sooooooooooo antsy i'm ready to just drive down to get it~!
;p

[Hides-His-Eyes]

Congratulations dude. I hope you've got a camera with Macro mode and a multimeter ready

[digi2t]

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I should have mine next week. Had a stroke of luck. Won't have to wait till June.

YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thedefog]

hi rob...the amazing thing is they only made about 200, and i know of at least 5 that went out in trash from some local schools.  

but hopefully soon, everybody who wants one will be able to!!!!  

Back 10 years ago when I was shopping around for a Fender Rhodes, a local high school threw away not one, but FOUR Rhodes pianos AND a couple of student model Wurlitzer 200a's. When I heard that, I nearly offed myself... Especially later when I paid $800 for my suitcase piano.

BTW guys, I'd be will to be a guinea pig on this project. I'm not totally into this effect like you guys are, but it looks like it would be a fun build, so I'd definitely buy all the parts and whatnot and build one in the name of getting it going.

[wavley]

hi rob...the amazing thing is they only made about 200, and i know of at least 5 that went out in trash from some local schools.  

but hopefully soon, everybody who wants one will be able to!!!!  

Back 10 years ago when I was shopping around for a Fender Rhodes, a local high school threw away not one, but FOUR Rhodes pianos AND a couple of student model Wurlitzer 200a's. When I heard that, I nearly offed myself... Especially later when I paid $800 for my suitcase piano.

BTW guys, I'd be will to be a guinea pig on this project. I'm not totally into this effect like you guys are, but it looks like it would be a fun build, so I'd definitely buy all the parts and whatnot and build one in the name of getting it going.

When I first moved to Florida there was a little shop that had a Mutron Biphase, I told the guy that I wanted it even though it was only half working.  He kept trying to convince me to buy this Rocktek one instead because it was smaller and it worked.  I insisted that I wanted the Mutron but I didn't get paid until the next day and asked if he would put it in the back for me on our agreed upon price of $40, which he did.  The next day I came back and he had the Rocktek set aside for me and said "I did you a favor and threw that old thing away like I should have done years ago, this one is better" I ran outside to his dumpster but it had already been emptied.  I really got to know the guy over the years and he genuinely thought he was trying to do me a favor and he really did throw it away (not sell it out from under me)

I guess it's ok, I did buy a Morley Pro Flange from him for $40 because the bulb had burnt out, he loved me because I cleaned out all of his old broken stuff that had been sitting for years.  Still, I would have loved to have that biphase.

[digi2t]

BTW guys, I'd be will to be a guinea pig on this project. I'm not totally into this effect like you guys are, but it looks like it would be a fun build, so I'd definitely buy all the parts and whatnot and build one in the name of getting it going.

OK, let's make a battle plan then. I truely think that the best first step should be a mock-up on a bread board. If you're willing to do the mock-up, Jimi and I will provide all the tech info (voltages, resistances, etc.), and photos.

Jimi, since I'm living out of boxes right now, would it be possible for you to do a video, or in depth sound clip? I can do pics, and measurements, but sound is out. All my gear is packed. I was thinking of a video (or sound clip) where you could run a clean signal through the Ludwig, and then manipulate all the controls, one at a time, from one extreme to another. Then we would have a sound reference baseline to work with.

Keppy has already offered to make boards, but I'd like to "measure twice, and cut once" before anyone goes to the trouble. Besides, I'm thinking that we don't need 2 seperate boards. Just one board, with off-board wiring to the pots and switches. A bread board model should give us the opportunity to audition different trannies. I can draw up all the off-board wiring in detail, and post it.

Lets go to war boys!!

[thedefog]

I don't think I have a breadboard big enough to do that, but I'd be willing to etch it and I can put sockets in place where the more challenging transistor types would be.

[R.G.]

I have what I think is a suitable set of formant filters running in the simulator. Takes two LM13700s to replace the two formant filters. There is a beginning at the control voltages for them to do vowels as well, that takes two dual opamps or one quad. I'll have to tinker some more with the filters to get ranges and "trajectories" right, probably.

So, would a modern interpretation use an internal fuzz or just make this a voicing device that used an outside distorter?
Is the parallel/antiparallel formant movement any use or is the real value here the formant/vowel sounds?
Is selection of only one or the other of the reaonant filters by itself for an odd kind of wah useful?
I think all that (except the fuzz) goes into one CD405x switch chip or an 8 pin PIC.

[digi2t]

R.G., as much as I have learned from you and your site, you're still WAY outta my league. Personally, I figured that cloning it, and keeping it "old school" would be a good start, and would also help me in my continuing electronics education. Not to mention the fact that this will make a great collaborative effort between total strangers, who have at least one thing in common  .

If you want to take the IC approach, that would be really cool as well. As I mentioned before, I'm more than willing to provide whatever info I can, although my experience may be somewhat limited. I even have access to a PC oscilliscope, if that helps. I could provide you with scope shots, provided you guide me through it if necessary.

Cheers,
Dino

[R.G.]

Oh, don't take my nattering as any kind of diversion from a clone. You guys need to make this work. My interests are much more in the design than actually having a working clone.

Once someone gets a real one or a clone working, it will be interesting to see if it matches what I think it should be doing.

Or if it matches the several generations of schematics. I put those schemos into the circuit simulator to see what they do, but have yet to be able to get them to act like filters. Probably something about the circuit I'm missing.

[Keppy]

I have what I think is a suitable set of formant filters running in the simulator. Takes two LM13700s to replace the two formant filters. There is a beginning at the control voltages for them to do vowels as well, that takes two dual opamps or one quad. I'll have to tinker some more with the filters to get ranges and "trajectories" right, probably.

So, would a modern interpretation use an internal fuzz or just make this a voicing device that used an outside distorter?
Is the parallel/antiparallel formant movement any use or is the real value here the formant/vowel sounds?
Is selection of only one or the other of the reaonant filters by itself for an odd kind of wah useful?
I think all that (except the fuzz) goes into one CD405x switch chip or an 8 pin PIC.

R.G., as much as I have learned from you and your site, you're still WAY outta my league. Personally, I figured that cloning it, and keeping it "old school" would be a good start, and would also help me in my continuing electronics education. Not to mention the fact that this will make a great collaborative effort between total strangers, who have at least one thing in common  .

If you want to take the IC approach, that would be really cool as well. As I mentioned before, I'm more than willing to provide whatever info I can, although my experience may be somewhat limited. I even have access to a PC oscilliscope, if that helps. I could provide you with scope shots, provided you guide me through it if necessary.

Cheers,
Dino

As I've said, I'm in favor of a workalike clone, but perhaps with ICs for a simpler, more reliable build. I don't think any of us will know what kind of mods we'll want switchable until we really see what this thing can do stock.

Having said that, if R.G. develops some kind of modified, Frankenstein version of this already monstrous circuit, well...that sounds pretty awesome too  

[digi2t]

MMMMMMUUUUUUUUAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA....

I should have it next week. The guy is shipping it tomorrow from Toronto, and I'm just outside Montreal, so I figure Thursday or Friday I should get it.

[buildafriend]

Reviews on this thing are all good good good. I want one.

"I couldn't believe it when my friend from the guitar shop called me and told me they just got in a Ludwig mini-Phase II. I asked if it wasn't in fact the same Ludwig Suitcase Phaser that Sonic Youth used on the Diamond Sea & he said "No it's way smaller than that & we think it's older, in fact we've never seen one, we can't find any info on it & it's broken". My heart jumped because I'm the only guy in town that fixes pedals. so after looking it over & bartering a little they let me have it for $40, oh man! It was sooooo worth the $5 transformer & the 1/2 hour worth of work. This thing is sooooooooooo lush & weird, it has most of the sounds on the Suitcase Phase II, and to be honest it's actually cooler in that it has C/V outs for Depth, Width, Resonance, regeneration, Noise, and a built in threadle for Speed. Another cool feature is the speed ramping (this allows it to speed up and slow down like a Leslie Cabinet."

[pinkjimiphoton]

BTW guys, I'd be will to be a guinea pig on this project. I'm not totally into this effect like you guys are, but it looks like it would be a fun build, so I'd definitely buy all the parts and whatnot and build one in the name of getting it going.

OK, let's make a battle plan then. I truely think that the best first step should be a mock-up on a bread board. If you're willing to do the mock-up, Jimi and I will provide all the tech info (voltages, resistances, etc.), and photos.

Jimi, since I'm living out of boxes right now, would it be possible for you to do a video, or in depth sound clip? I can do pics, and measurements, but sound is out. All my gear is packed. I was thinking of a video (or sound clip) where you could run a clean signal through the Ludwig, and then manipulate all the controls, one at a time, from one extreme to another. Then we would have a sound reference baseline to work with.

Keppy has already offered to make boards, but I'd like to "measure twice, and cut once" before anyone goes to the trouble. Besides, I'm thinking that we don't need 2 seperate boards. Just one board, with off-board wiring to the pots and switches. A bread board model should give us the opportunity to audition different trannies. I can draw up all the off-board wiring in detail, and post it.

Lets go to war boys!!

dino, soon as i get it, i will do my best to make a video...let's hope it''s a working example!!

[pinkjimiphoton]

I have what I think is a suitable set of formant filters running in the simulator. Takes two LM13700s to replace the two formant filters. There is a beginning at the control voltages for them to do vowels as well, that takes two dual opamps or one quad. I'll have to tinker some more with the filters to get ranges and "trajectories" right, probably.

So, would a modern interpretation use an internal fuzz or just make this a voicing device that used an outside distorter?
Is the parallel/antiparallel formant movement any use or is the real value here the formant/vowel sounds?
Is selection of only one or the other of the reaonant filters by itself for an odd kind of wah useful?
I think all that (except the fuzz) goes into one CD405x switch chip or an 8 pin PIC.

there's an internal fuzz already, but it's more of a buzzbox kind of fuzz...sounds great with the other stuff, but pretty crappy on it's own.
the formant filter ideas sound hip, r.g.

as for the rest, i guess we gotta figure it out when dino and i get them in...the wah was good as i recall, but it's real strength was the phasey vowel sounds.

remember, this was designed to be an analog interface to control voltage inputs on analog synths for vocals, guitar, drums or what have you...it's not supposed to be a guitar effect, that's more a happy accident i think.