someone upped this on "another" forum...worth a look!!!!!

[pinkjimiphoton]

great tip, r.g....i'll nab one of them next time i'm at the parts store...i was eyeballing one just the other day for 5 bux, but cash was a little tite so i opted for parts instead/

yah, visual issues suck. for sure. but it could be worse, for sure...i've been pretty lucky it hasn't gotten worse the last few years.

thanks for the explanation of the pinouts...i understand it better now.

i did see your cross reference, keppy...but i, like you, know nada about transistors...this is gonna be in r.g.'s ball park methinks.

as for cross reference, here's a handy page to bookmark...i've had good luck finding esoteric parts so far. don't reccomend any of their ge transistors tho, as the fool things are so leaky you can literally put 'em in backwards, and they'll STILL work!! lol 

semiconductors:
http://nte01.nteinc.com/nte/NTExRefSemiProd.nsf/$$Search?openForm

pretty much everything you could ever hope to find:

http://nte01.nteinc.com/nte/NTExRefSemiProd.nsf?opendatabase

still, mouser and allied probably have better quality and larger inventory, but the nte stuff is common and easy to find.

a couple other possibilities for obscure parts are allelectronics and electronic goldmine.

matter of fact, i think it was at all electronics i saw the "mushroom" buttons a couple years ago, may be worth a re-visit.

peace.

[R.G.]

Did you see the cross-reference links I posted earlier in the thread for the transistor numbers in the schematic? They seemed plausible to me, but I know nothing about transistors from back then (and little about the ones they make now).

I did see that. I took a look at a couple of them and decided that they were "false positive" matches.

2N2646 datasheet here

This is still available, but expensive. I recently adapted the 2N6027 (?) PUT to a similar circuit for replacing the 2N2646 in a Vox repeat percussion application. It's only $0.25.

Here's a thread about the 43121...and another match: http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/catalog/p43120.shtml

The device that link leads to is a 20W power transistor in a TO-220 case. I think it's a false positive.

43045 & 43054 are mentioned on the second-to-last page here: http://archives.telex.com/archives/EV/Amplifiers/Service%20Manual/EV%201144A%20Service%20Data.pdf

Given that there was a reference to E-V on the boards, and that's an EV service manual, they are probably the same ones, but that just makes them an EV house number.
At least 43054 is listed as "low noise".  I'll poke into the SE-4002. One reference I saw says it was made by Farichild, in a TO-106 case, which is the round-top plastic version, not the flat face TO-92. I'd bet on 2N3904 working. Or my favorite, the 2N5088.

and here: http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/catalog/p43040.shtml

For this ref, the pointer is to the 2SC3206, which is an NPN in a TO-92, but it's an ECB, and is a 200V device. I think they're all EBCs. The 43054 link points to a 2SC3212, which is an 800V power transistor.

43173, 43174, 43175 & 43176 datasheets here: http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/catalog/p43160.shtml

Possibles, but they all have ECB pinouts, and I think that conflicts with the layout.

Anyway that's what put me off those cross references.

[pinkjimiphoton]

do you think these may be the mushroom heads for the foot switches?

http://cmsapps.sea.siemens.com/controls/icc2010/10IndControl_%20pdfs/10IC_10/10_158-161.pdf

http://www.ppsokc.com/parts%20and%20legends.htm

pricey...32 bux apiece!!!

[digi2t]

OK, first off, control board size. Sorry, I only had a metric ruler handy. 241mm X 57mm. Hope that's good for you Kep. Resistor spacing is approx. 14mm.

Jimi, holes on the panel are as follows. All holes are 3/16" diameter (hole to hole dimensions are center to center). The 10 1/2" side being the top, the edge distance from the top for the 3 holes is 1/4". One hole on the centerline, and the two holes on either side, 5/16" edge distance to the side. From the center hole, this should give you 4 15/16" between center hole and corner hole.

On the the side (11 11/16"), the middle hole is 5 1/2" below the top corner hole, with 5/16" edge distance.

Along the bottom (11 1/2" side), the center hole is on the centerlineline, with 7/16" edge distance. The corner holes are 5 1/8" below the side holes, 21/32" side edge distance, leaving you with a lower edge distance of 13/16". You should  have 10 1/8" between the two corner holes. The lower looks funky because the center hole is off alignment with the two corner holes. It is what it is.

R.G., I'm leaning in Jimi's direction insofar as the fuzz is concerned. Jimi's nailing it when he says "so bad it's good". I mean my crappy quality video just doesn't do it justice. But, I've been studing the schematic, and I think (to my noob eyes), that on the motherboard the signal goes through some kind of buffering (the Hi Z / Lo Z thing???), and then comes the fuzz circuit? Q3, Q4, and Q22? Am I right? Have I learned anything? Anyway, I would be more inclined to socket the trannies for the fuzz circuit (I would socket everything ANYWAY), and add a trimmer for biasing. One could then retain the original circuit, but have the flexibility of trying different trannies. For instance, I'm a big fan of BC108 / BC109 combos in NPN fuzz's. Would be nice just to get the "original" circuit up and about, and then start tweaking. Food for thought. Why do I suddenly feel like a child in the middle of a custody battle  . Love you both guys!!

One final thing. On the diagram of the control board, there are connections marked as Perc. Rpt. Pot"" (Perc. = Percussion???). Perc. doesn't even show up anywhere on the unit, but there is Fuzz Rpt. control. Maybe these babies were supposed to tick when the Fuzz Rpt. control was pushed up high? Just a hypothesis, just maybe, Percussive sound effect? Pie in the sky?

And, oh yeah, @#$% reality TV. This is WAY more fun. Pardon my French.

Good night all,
Dino

[digi2t]

Just got off the phone with a Ludwig rep, over at Conn-Selmer. First off, he was simply AMAZED the we found 2 units... in the same week no less. Anyway, I took a shot at maybe digging up some info i.e. service and setup, test point readings, etc., but no dice. It was was a gamble, but as we say around here, he who never gambles never loses. Never wins either. He told me that when they moved the plant from Chicago, a lot of their stuff got lost or chucked in the move. I guess we`ll just have to rely on the readings that Jimi and I get from our units.

Maybe I`ll try putting out the word on a Ludwig forum as well. Never know, maybe there`s an oldtimer lurking there. I`ve got my coffee pot on standby 

[pinkjimiphoton]

hey dino, great work bro...

especially having the nads to call ludwig directly.  man, i bet ya if jack darr was still alive he'd know something...he seemed to know EVERYTHING...lol.

question...any idea what the value and dimensions are of the fuzz repeat slider?

i believe it's just like the percussion repeat on an organ...ie a quick fuzzy slap, not really an echo, not really a tremolo. it could just be feedback for the fuzz, for that matter...
seems to make mine grow bigger baalz. when the rest of the house gets up, and hopefully goes out (read: never happen with my luck) i'm gonna crank this poopy up thru my cyber twin and see what shakes out.

i will definitely be able to get voltage readings etc. but...i'm thinking dino's the better one to do that. mine was stored poorly, and broken down for 30 years with a complete lack of revenance for it's rarity.

dino's sounds better. period. i'm thinking that's why, in his demo, it sounds like i remember this one sounding. this one now sounds darker, some of the effects aren't as clear, and the formants are definitely off. so i'm gonna mark the trimmers and play with them to see if i can get it "tuned" up a bit, but that's gonna come later. first, i wanna try and get it functioning, and am enough of a noob i'm a little afraid of killing it. i've gotta replace the one lamp under the fuzz switch, replace the fuzz repeat slider, and then i believe it's 100% functioning and i'll start messing with it.


i spent 4 hours last nite surfing around for mushroom pushbuttons. still haven't found them. asking for catalogs from everywhere i can find that sells obscure and surplus parts.

my bass player gary in my original projects' sister just died (heart attack, only 48, bloody horrible) so he's out of commission, but when he's back i'll see if he can fabricate the mushroom heads for the switches, and if so, how much they'll be. he's a master machinist, so...

i know they're not necessary, but damn, that's some MOJO with a capital M. nyuck nyuck nyuck...

[boogietone]

I was just last week quoted ~80usd setup and ~2.50usd per piece for custom machined aluminum knobs from a friend of brothers. I would expect a similar cost for the button caps.

[pinkjimiphoton]

i think he'll blow off the setup for me...that would be cool if he can hook us up!!

[digi2t]

First off, I'd like to express my sincerest condolences to your friend. 48 is just so young, and being a family member as well just plain sucks  . I hope they were close, because nothing sucks worse than having regrets on top of grief.

Jimi, if you get a good deal on the caps, I might just Paypal you the money, and have him make 3 more. I'm going to check with my contact as well. The ones I've come across are for E-stops. I think custom fab is the only way to go.

I left a message with a group of Ludwig afficianados. Although they specialize in drums, they seem to be really into the company history. You never know. There has to be a scrap of paper from the original plant floating around somewhere.

In the meantime, I'll measure the resistance readings on both sides (wiper to A, and wiper to C) of the trimmers on mine, and post them for you. Mark yours, and then set yours to mine and see what it sounds like. I know there is one trimmer on the motherboard (in the middle) that really changes the frequency of the sound globally. If it still doesn't sound close to mine, we may have a problem... or not  . Might just be that someone screwed around with them, and never put them back... hopefully. I'll try to measure up the slider as well, but you might have to retrofit a replacement in there. Just be careful though, because I've already had to resolder a couple of wires on mine due to handling. Seems the solder can be really brittle in places. I know you said your eye sights bad, but a good going over all the solder joints might be in order here.

I'll say it again.... DAMN, why can't you be next door!!!!!!! Or at least in Vermont?  

[pinkjimiphoton]

well, i'm in connecticut...that's closer than r.g. in texas!


more later...off to get more parts...

[GodSaveMetal]

GOODNESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It took me ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!                  :what a pedal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I want mine, please continue whit it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks a lot for your incredible work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pinkjimiphoton]

i got back a little while ago, getting ready to fabricate the bottom plate. the sheet metal is cut, i de-burred the edges and marked the holes. now i gotta get the baalz up to actually drill it. had the presence of mind to get a sheet of clear plastic to make a template for it to be sure i don't screw up when drilling. also got rubber feet for it which i think will help.

dino...dude...i love ya man, never met ya, but i KNOW ya...lol...thanks for everything!! that big trimmer is the first place i'll play with it...it seems like the total tonal frequency needs to be tweaked up a little, i bet that will take care of it.

thanks bro, i mean it!

now...back to work...wish me luck!!

namaste
pink

ps...i will talk to gary when i see him about fabricating them mushrooms. he'll probably get a kick out of it, and in exchange for his help, maybe we can all work together and draw him up a nice pedal for his bass i can build him. i let him try the lpb1 with diode clipper i built and he loved it...thinking i'll build him another, use in34a's for easier clipping, and double the cap values so it'll work better for bass.

he REALLY wants a nice pedal, something to boost the ass and allow a nice fuzzy overdrive. so maybe that's how we can pay him forward for fabbing the shroom's for us.

more later...peace!

[R.G.]

I finally got the simulator to run the filter modules from the original. At least in the simulator, the settings seem to be interactive and critical.

On custom plastic parts - go to a hobby/crafts store and get some FIMO or Sculpy plastic modelling clay. Artsy types use it to make colored beads, doll faces, etc. It's a filled plastic clay in colors that you hand mold to shape, then bake in an oven. It sets into solid plastic on baking.

[digi2t]

i got back a little while ago, getting ready to fabricate the bottom plate. the sheet metal is cut, i de-burred the edges and marked the holes. now i gotta get the baalz up to actually drill it. had the presence of mind to get a sheet of clear plastic to make a template for it to be sure i don't screw up when drilling. also got rubber feet for it which i think will help.

dino...dude...i love ya man, never met ya, but i KNOW ya...lol...thanks for everything!! that big trimmer is the first place i'll play with it...it seems like the total tonal frequency needs to be tweaked up a little, i bet that will take care of it.

thanks bro, i mean it!

now...back to work...wish me luck!!

namaste
pink

ps...i will talk to gary when i see him about fabricating them mushrooms. he'll probably get a kick out of it, and in exchange for his help, maybe we can all work together and draw him up a nice pedal for his bass i can build him. i let him try the lpb1 with diode clipper i built and he loved it...thinking i'll build him another, use in34a's for easier clipping, and double the cap values so it'll work better for bass.

he REALLY wants a nice pedal, something to boost the ass and allow a nice fuzzy overdrive. so maybe that's how we can pay him forward for fabbing the shroom's for us.

more later...peace!

Good move on the plastic template. First class thinking. thanks for the love dude. Just seems to me that sharing is just SO much better than ignorance.

I have to apologize though, I just didn't have the time tonight to do the trimmer readings. I'll do them tomorrow. Promise.

For your friend Gary, I was thinking, maybe Tone God's Christine pedal, but voiced for bass. I'll ask Taylor if it's doable. I built one using Taylor's board, it's an awesome noise maker. I'll send a PM to Taylor.

Cheers,
Dino

[pinkjimiphoton]

it's all good my friend...just got done doing the holes. gonna coat the outside in some pseudo-wood grain contact paper, then putting it together. won't be perfect, but hey, it'll be better than being open!!! lol

no worries on the trimmer readings, i can't do anything tonite anyways...but tomorrow my girl is leaving for the weekend with her daughter, so ya know i'll be probably getting arrested for noise ordinance violations!!!

i'll make it say "oyvey" at the cops...that orter get me shot!

it's really cool that we can all come together to make this happen, it's a beautiful thing...all for the love of music, my friend.

gotta get back to work on a video i'm upping to dweezil's forum of my old power trio doing a zappa song about 15 years ago..lol

namaste...

[R.G.]

For the owners of the two in captivity:

Would it be possible for you to refer to this: http://geofex.com/FX_images/Ludwig P2.gif and (1) see if the guesses about what connects to what I made were correct, and (2) draw in wires where there is obviously something that needs to connect, but is not shown?

I tried to do it with the photos, but got lost in some of the wire routings.

[pinkjimiphoton]

sure thing r.g., will try to get the gif printed tomorrow, and see if i can try and help somehow.

finished the bottom panel tonite, complete with faux wood grain and added a couple rubber feet for the heel area.

my new phone takes much nicer pictures!!

[GodSaveMetal]

sure thing r.g., will try to get the gif printed tomorrow, and see if i can try and help somehow.

finished the bottom panel tonite, complete with faux wood grain and added a couple rubber feet for the heel area.

my new phone takes much nicer pictures!!

Great work my friend look very nice!!!!

[pinkjimiphoton]

thanks bro, it's coming along...hopefully soon it'll be 100% .

and soon, EVERYONE is gonna be able to have one....ya know, that's the best part.

i traded this off in 78, and it came back to me 33 years later, broken. now it's slowly coming back to life.

but the one thing i am sure of, is this....

this device WANTS to be reborn!

[digi2t]

DUDE... EXCELLENT!!!!! Other than the missing rubber strip, looks just like mine  

OK, back to business. Trimmer readings. First off, they're all being used as variable resistors, so there will be only one reading per trimmer. I thought perhaps that some would serve as reference pots, but that was a brain fart on my part (read the schematic...DOAH!!). For the trimmers that lay flat (R4, R20, and R65), the thumbwheel facing up, and the leg towards you, all the readings are between the left side board clip, and the right leg. For the ones standing up, center to whatever leg gives you higher than 0 resistance. If you're moving the wheel, and you're reading isn't changing, than switch outside leg.

Please take note that all the readings were taken with; unit unplugged, all footswitches OFF (in bypass), all sliders down (minimum), all control switches down (OFF, or center for the 3-way, all pointing skyward), treadle toe down, bypass balance max. (all the way to the right facing you), and Z balance min. (all the way to the left facing you). I figured that it would be important to mention this, since I didn't know if having the controls in different position would affect the readings. Shouldn't, but I'm trying to be as scientific as possible. Just trying to cover all the bases.

Soooo, without further ado (trimmer # as per the schematic);
R4 - 196.0K
R20 - 2.16K
R29 - 90.7R
R31 - 5.61K
R41 - 13.8R
R55 - 25.36K
R62 - 258.8R
R65 - 26.53K
R77 - 21.79K

R=ohms. K=kohms.

If I were you Jimi, I would record your original setup, and go from there. Then you can come back if it SNAFU's.

R.G., tracing all the offboard wiring is on my Honeydo list. I'm shooting to get that done this coming week. It's baseball season now, and my son's got 3 games this weekend, so I'm snookered for time. He's with his mom this coming week, so I'll have more time.

The saga continues.
Dino