Vocal compressor and a gate

[vendettav]

Hey, so today a dude asked me if i could build a compressor for him and a gate. He sings in a lot of styles: growl, scream, grunt, clean...
He also offered to pay for it a bit so this is a win win situation. Experience towards the fee for the components.

Ok so what i'd like to question is what's a nice analog compressor for live uses. he wanted it to work on 9v and keep up for a few hours of use. I'd want it to be easy and simple, and something that won't be much of a trouble.
and what's a good gate (with an adjustable threshold of course) that'll shut the mic up when he's not singing?

I'd also want it to be quite

I told him i could probably make him a prototype so that he could see if he liked it. so suggestions may start by now

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Have you looked at the SSM2166 based compressor?

It is a compressor AND gate on one chip.

AND... I am pretty sure it has already been used and proven for vocals.

Link: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=87300.0

Good Luck  

[thedefog]

Is this for sound man use, or something he wants to just plug a microphone right into on stage and control himself? Because you'll need a preamp as well if he plans on using it on stage. THAT Corp. makes awesome preamps & Compressor/Limiters on a chip. They sound amazing too. I've built a few and use a THAT based preamp for my own stuff. http://www.thatcorp.com/THAT_IC_Products.shtml

[vendettav]

hmm well digital is not my thing really (or is it not digital?) and well i don't think I can afford ordering from multiple stores. the only guys who'd ship for a reasonable price are tayda. others ship for over 50 (or even 150) bux for minimal stuff like one hammond 1590B :p

so i'm thinking of something simpler may be?

Is this for sound man use, or something he wants to just plug a microphone right into on stage and control himself?

the latter. he wants to use it himself or something. what he said was like "sometimes venues don't have that sort of stuff so i want one for my own use you know"

[thedefog]

hmm well digital is not my thing really (or is it not digital?) and well i don't think I can afford ordering from multiple stores. the only guys who'd ship for a reasonable price are tayda. others ship for over 50 (or even 150) bux for minimal stuff like one hammond 1590B :p

so i'm thinking of something simpler may be?

Is this for sound man use, or something he wants to just plug a microphone right into on stage and control himself?

the latter. he wants to use it himself or something. what he said was like "sometimes venues don't have that sort of stuff so i want one for my own use you know"

The THAT stuff is completely analog. They do offer digital stuff as well, but it will specify. You will need a bipolar power supply for it though, so you'll have to factor in some voltage regulators and large filter cap section. It probably won't be normal pedal board sized because of that.

You can pretty much build the example circuits on their page and be in business.

[vendettav]

so hold on, THAT is just a preamp?

ahh i'm totally new to the Vocal kind of stuff. could you pease tell me more on what i need and what schematics or stuff i could use? 

[Mark Hammer]

It's a piece of cake to throw a simple single op-amp balanced-input mic preamp on the front end of the 2166 circuit.  And if the mic is unbalanced (and we certainly hope the singer isn't!), it's even easier.

[FUZZZZzzzz]

take a look over here.. this guy has a lot of schematics and good explanations on his projects..
http://sound.westhost.com/projects.htm

[vendettav]

Hey he'll probably be having an unbalanced mic but who knows? woudlnt it be more versatile to have a balanced box (it'd work with unbalanced as well)
so this: http://sound.westhost.com/project88.htm could be fine for the preamp? but hey seems to me it's not balanced?

ok this http://sound.westhost.com/project66.htm could be the thing but it's a bit complicated for a vero board. it's got the trannies ive never heard of (lol) and
this thing actually looks more of a problem than a win situation.  what dya guys say if i ditch the idea? or if you could be more detailed in the suggestions may be i could man up to take this challenge?

[egasimus]

Well, if you find yourself in doubt, then perhaps you should give up. IMO one should always be sure that whatever one builds for others is of top quality and reliability.
But then again, perhaps you should go on. If one wants to develop in a certain field (and as a person), one should always push one's boundaries, and the preamp circuit isn't that complex at all. If you can order pre-made PCBs, that would make your life easier, as a lot of the frustration I face when building something that's a bit above my level is with the technicalities like bad PCB etches, bad soldering, etc...

[anchovie]

what dya guys say if i ditch the idea?

I think you should. You've spoken in the past about difficulty in getting components (location and lack of Paypal, IIRC), so you may well have problems getting hold of THAT or SSM2166 chips.

Also, the original request is for an effect that you have zero experience of building. It would be a better deal if you know for sure that you can provide him with value for his money.

[vendettav]

Yeah guys thanx for the help i see the point in going on and taking the challenge but it seems like a lot of hassle and the dude is not that close to me so i don't want to put him into an uncomfortable situation. I think i'll ditch it. there's too much stuff to care about: wiring, power supply, the box (this could turn int oa huge problem especialyl with the shipping rates) so i'll better stick to guitar or bass or similar stompbox kind of gear

thanx

[artifus]

"there's too much stuff to care about: wiring, power supply, the box ..."

even if you could deliver a quality compressor in the vein of a neve, api, manley, thermonic culture, meek, fairchild, (insert name of reputable and well respected audio manufacturer of your preference here) etc., i doubt very much whether this guy would know how and when to use it effectively - and that's assuming that he would have the time, patience, memory and/or notes to set it up appropriately from song to song depending on venue and scenario, regardless of your ability to design, build and tune it, and that it would cause him (and however many live sound engineers he may encounter whilst still insisting on using it until he decides it's 'junk') far more problems than it is likely to solve.

if you'd like to help you need to talk to this guy about what his perceived problem is, why he thinks having a compressor/gate will help, explain to him how it may not and assist him in coming up with another viable solution to his problem. these may include: mic technique, monitoring issues, stage layout, choice of venue or indeed a technological/electronic solution designed and built by your good self. for example: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/automike/automike.htm or perhaps just a simple passive, foot switchable mic pad or volume pedal. maybe he's looking for vocal fx like fuzz or telephone/megaphone voice and doesn't know it yet.

an onstage compressor will reduce dynamic range and increase the possibility of feedback and you'll need a pretty fancy pants gate to distinguish between a whisper, a growl, a scream and a near by snare drum.

a common live mic such as a shure sm58 will quite happily connect to a stompbox via a balanced xlr to unbalanced jack cable and can be connected to the pa with a di box. saxophonists often use filters and autowahs on stage in this way. experiment.

he definitely needs to learn to make friends and communicate effectively with his sound engineers - especially if he intends on running on stage vocal fx to the pa. that, i suspect, would be of the greatest benefit.

[Johan]

+1 on everything Artifus wrote.
vocal compressors live are nothing but feedback machines and should be avoided...beter invest a few hours in learning/practicing good microphone handling technice( back off when screaming, get close when whispering..)..everybody will be happier in the end..
J

[StephenGiles]

Makes me feel rather glad that when I played in a band we just had back line amps for guitar and bass and a vocal amp. I had a Selmer Selectortone and an Ampeg. Then I was in control of my volume when I was being flash - a lot of the time!!!

All a long time ago!

[vendettav]

nice point actually. this makes me think the dude didn't know what he really want's either! might want to try and retalk to him about it

[artifus]

having said all that...

there might be something to be said for a lo-fi, idiot proof, xlr in/xlr out one knob device (perhaps with basic eq?) for those occasions when the 'sound engineer' is 'unavailable', despite their apparent physical presence, or where you may have to plug into a spare instrument amp (pa failure/house party)? - maybe based on the $5 mic pre (free chips from ti samples!) and optical (ldr) compression? just thinking out loud. forum thoughts?

[vendettav]

that sounds interesting and quite what i'd want it to be 

[artifus]

google the $5 dollar mic pre. for super lo-fi fun you could follow the 386 datasheet mic pre schematics and implement something like top top's stupid idea for a stupid compressor, similar to this concept. also, check the gallery for what i think was called the la light compressor - there are both studio and stomp versions worth checking out.

*edit* thinking about this further, i'd be tempted to go the lo-fi 386 route, severely cutting lf and hf  - lot's of hf, perhaps even introducing a little distortion purposefully, with a blend control to mix in the original unprocessed signal, kinda parallel compression style, and returning the signal to mic/instrument level. may help a vocal cut thru a busy mix when pushed. tho the user would still need to know what they were doing and work with the engineer in order to avoid problems - or maybe a dual gang pot that turned down output level whilst increasing compression?