Ludwig Phase II Clone Tech Notes

[pinkjimiphoton]

here ya go... i think i know what keppy's problems are...drummers on lsd should never try and draw up a schematic...even tho they lucked out building the actual device...probably a happy accident!!! read 'em and weep!!!!

r1 470r
r2 33k
r3 10k
r4 4.7k
r5 22k
r6 1m
r7 680k
r8 680k
r9 1k
r10 4.7k
r11 10k
r12 100k
r13 10k
r14 4.7k
r15 47k
r16 69k
r17 1m
r18 47k
r19 4.7k
r20 22k
r21 22k
r22 4.7k
r23 680k
r24 47k
r25 470r
r26 47k
r27 470k
r28 3.3k
r29 trimmer, 100r on mine(150r stock) set 92r
r30 330r
r31 doesn't exist on the board or schem!!
r32 4.7k...mistake, schem says 47r
r33 150k  w 1m paralleled
r34 22k
r35 47k
r36 68k
r37 precision 1%, 4.32k
r38 4.7k
r39 22k
r40 1k
r41 trimmer, 500r mine reads 414r
r42 82k
r43 10k
r44 22k
r45 47k
r46 4.7k
r47 1k
r48 4.7k
r49 47k
r50 150k
r51 22k
r52 22k
r53 150k
r54 47k
r55 trimmer, 50k mine reads 40.5k
r56 4.7k
r57 68k
r58 precision 1%, 4.3k (mine 4.2k)
r59 1k
r60 4.7k
r61 22k
r62 trimmer, 500r mine 475r
r63 82k
r64 10k
r65 trimmer, 25 k mine reads 24.3k
r66 47k
r67 4.7k
r68 1k
r69 4.7k
r70 150k
r71 47k
r72 22k
r73 4.7k
r74 1.9r...schem says 3.9 orange,white,gold
r75 10k
r76  i think was 10k originally, 27k in mine(mod)
not shown on schematic!!
r77 trimmer, mine reads 29.6k, probably 50k

will start on the caps as soon as my eyes stop bugging out...even with my glasses, i needed to use the magnifying glass from my helping hands thing...

[R.G.]

Those are on the fall plate/filter board, right?

[pinkjimiphoton]

yep, that's the fall plate bro.

gonna start on the caps next. all the ELECTROLYTICS on the fall board are i believe what's on the schem, other than the input one i changed from 10mf to i think 22mf@100v.

i have no idea how to read tropical fish caps, but i did find my rat shack thingy...so i'll do my best. it's hard sometimes to tell color from color for me, cuz some of the stuff is kinda faded a little..bright light, glasses and a magnifying glass should help.

i shoulda took the console board...lot less parts!! lol!

[Keppy]

Jimi, R31 is a 25k trimmer on the edge of the board connected to point 4. R76 is a 33k resistor that is out of order in the schematic (right at the beginning from point 3 to ground). R74 is a lamp resistor which I have omitted (though it's on R.G.'s layout). Thanks for the info!

Dino, could you verify R32 on the fall plate? Jimi's is different than the schematic, but that resistor connects to R33, the one that in his unit is paralleled with a 1M. Since you don't have the added 1M, I wonder whether yours will match the schem or not.

Thanks a ton guys, hopefully this info will get me up and running! Hopefully before I move next week...

[Keppy]

Here you go Jimi:

[R.G.]

I did a compare with the spreadsheet I made for the parts for Kep. Here are the pithed-out differences:

R16   6.8K or 68K
r18   47K or 470k
R33   150K vs 150 paral 1M
R36   6.8K or 68K
R38   4.7K or 47K
R42   12K or 82K
R57   6.8K or 68K
R60   4.7K or 47K
R63   12K or 82K
R74   1.9R or 3.9R
R76   27K? 33K?

I am slightly color blind. For some reason, I have problems with 4.7K and 47K all the time and generally meter them when I run into them. This makes me very sensitive to missing a color code band. It's possible that the resistor colors have shifted in the decades since they were made. I notice that many of the differences fall into the range of possibly misinterpreting a digit in color code, particularly 4.7K/47K/470K, and 6.8K/68K. Did you happen to meter those? I'm thinking that over time there may have a color shift than makes the multiplier (red/orange/yellow) harder to tell. It's also easy to misinterpret the placement of decimal points on the schematic; I may have mucked that up.

Also, 12K vs 82K is a single band difference, in this case brown for gray, but that's a bigger color shift. I may have read the schemo wrong.

[pinkjimiphoton]

i will check, rg...it's indeed hard to tell sometimes!! but i'll re-check and then meter them. gimme a little bit.

[Keppy]

R.G., you can add to that list from the console board:

R14 (6.8k in Dino's, 10k in the schem, 100k in the BOM)
R15 (22k in schem & BOM, 10k on Dino's)
R22 (Jumper on his, 100r on schem/BOM, probably doesn't matter for the power supply.)

R14 is wired into the formant switches, which may be why mine don't work. R15 might have a role there as well.

[Keppy]

Also on the console board:

C3 (1u Dino/.01u schem) - coupling cap, mentioned earlier
C4 & C5 (470n Dino/4.7n schem) - Argh! Right in the flip-flop!
C7 (1u Dino/.01u schem) - supply filter cap, post-regulator. No biggie, as I'm already pretty noise-free.

[pinkjimiphoton]

ok, i rechecked and metered. i DID misread a couple...sorry!!
here ya go:

R16   6.8K or 68K.....mine 5.5k
r18   47K or 470k......mine 390k
R33   150K vs 150 paral 1M......mine (combined) 29.6k
R36   6.8K or 68K......mine 69.1k
R38   4.7K or 47K......mine 4.5k
R42   12K or 82K......mine 9.4k
R57   6.8K or 68K......mine 70.2k
R60   4.7K or 47K......mine 4.5k
R63   12K or 82K......mine 9.4k
R74   1.9R or 3.9R.....mine 2.25r
R76   27K? 33K?......mine 27k

r31 on mine is trimmer (sorry, eyes were bugging out) reads 5.3k...schem says 25k!! mine is 5.3, across the two outside lugs.

[pinkjimiphoton]

ok, please disregard the previous listing...
this is the updated fall plate board resistor bom..

keppy, man, i am so sorry i didn't fuggin' do this in the first place and save ya all that aggravation, bro..

r1 470r
r2 33k
r3 10k
r4 4.7k
r5 22k
r6 1m
r7 680k
r8 680k
r9 1k
r10 4.7k
r11 10k
r12 100k
r13 10k
r14 4.7k
r15 47k
r16 6.8k
r17 1m
r18 470k mine 390k
r19 4.7k
r20 22k
r21 22k
r22 4.7k
r23 680k
r24 47k
r25 470r
r26 47k
r27 470k
r28 3.3k
r29 trimmer, 100r on mine(150r stock) set 92r
r30 330r
r31 schem says 25k!! mine is 5.3
r32 4.7k...mistake, schem says 47r
r33 150k  w 1m paralleled, mine (combined) 29.6k
r34 22k
r35 47k
r36 68k
r37 precision 1%, 4.32k
r38 4.7k
r39 22k
r40 1k
r41 trimmer, 500r mine reads 414r
r42 12k
r43 10k
r44 22k
r45 47k
r46 4.7k
r47 1k
r48 4.7k
r49 47k
r50 150k
r51 22k
r52 22k
r53 150k
r54 47k
r55 trimmer, 50k mine reads 40.5k
r56 4.7k
r57 68k
r58 precision 1%, 4.3k (mine 4.2k)
r59 1k
r60 4.7k
r61 22k
r62 trimmer, 500r mine 475r
r63 82k
r64 10k
r65 trimmer, 25 k mine reads 24.3k
r66 47k
r67 4.7k
r68 1k
r69 4.7k
r70 150k
r71 47k
r72 22k
r73 4.7k
r74 1.9r...schem says 3.9 orange,white,gold..mine2.25r
r75 10k
r76  i think was 10k originally, 27k in mine(mod)
not shown on schematic!!
r77 trimmer, mine reads 29.6k, probably 50k

[pinkjimiphoton]

caps...electrolytic or tropical fish unless noted
sorry...too burnt to try and figure out the color code thing yet, so i'm just posting the colors of the trop caps.

c1 10mf@65v stock, mine 22mf@100v
c2 brown black yellow white red
c3 brown black orange white red
c4 brown black yellow white orange
c5 brown black yellow white (can't tell, orange or red)
c6 10mf@100v
c7 brown black yellow white red
c8 brown black yellow white red
c9 brown black yellow white red
c10 yellow purple red white red
c11 yellow purple red white red
c12  red yellow white red yellow
c13 10mf@100v
c14 2.2mf@100v
c15 10mf@100v
c16 brown black orange white red
c17 orange yellow white red
c18 brown black orange white red
c19 brown black yellow white red
c20 orange yellow white red
c21 10mf@100v
c22 2.5mf@100v
c23 2.5mf@100v
c24 10mf@100v
c25 brown black orange white red
c26 brown black yellow white red
c27 brown black orange white red
c28 brown black yellow white red
c29 tantalum, orange, brown white
c30 brown black yellow white red
c31 10mf@100v
c32 2.5mf@100v

[Keppy]

Thanks again, Jimi! I notice you measured R63 as 9.4k, but listed it as 82k in your final list (it's 12k in the schem). Which is it?

[R.G.]

ok, i rechecked and metered. i DID misread a couple...sorry!!

No biggie. That's what cross checking is for. I'm just glad you're there to do it.

I have to say that this kind of thing - the complexity, the uncertainty about what to compare it to, etc. is what kept me from doing this back when. No way to ever see that it would get right.

R16   6.8K or 68K.....mine 5.5k [I think that makes it a 6.8K as measured in circuit; things measure a bit small in circuit because of the stuff in parallel]
6.8K seems more right based on what it does in the circuit.

R36   6.8K or 68K......mine 69.1k [call it 68K]
R57   6.8K or 68K......mine 70.2k [68k here]
It makes sense that these should both be 68K, given what they do in the circuit.

r18   47K or 470k......mine 390k [likewise: I'd call it 470K]
From circuit function, can't guess, although 470 seems more right to me than 47K. Go with 470K.

R33   150K vs 150 paral 1M......mine (combined) 29.6k [!?]
The combined in-circuit reading would be that low, because other stuff is in parallel. Go with 150K and maybe have to tinker.

R38   4.7K or 47K......mine 4.5k [4.7k]
R60   4.7K or 47K......mine 4.5k [4.7k]
From the schemo, these should match. The exact value is probably not critical. 4.7K does not raise any questions.

R42   12K or 82K......mine 9.4k [probably 12k then]
R63   12K or 82K......mine 9.4k[12k]
These oughta match from filter to filter, and the 12K seems more reasonable to me than 82K.

R74   1.9R or 3.9R.....mine 2.25r [3.9 most likely]
R76   27K? 33K?......mine 27k [we'll go with 27k]

r31 on mine is trimmer (sorry, eyes were bugging out) reads 5.3k...schem says 25k!! mine is 5.3, across the two outside lugs.

That's OK. It's set up as a variable resistor, so the resistance from outside to outside goes up and down with the setting. I'd say that 25K is right, as it can be set down to the 5.3K you measure.

Thanks very much for digging through that!

R14 (6.8k in Dino's, 10k in the schem, 100k in the BOM)
R15 (22k in schem & BOM, 10k on Dino's)
R22 (Jumper on his, 100r on schem/BOM, probably doesn't matter for the power supply.)

R14 and 15 on the console have to do with how much of the control voltage from the pedal/animation gets into the respective filters. I think they may have tinkered these on test. We should be prepared to as well. R22 makes it easier on Q6, less power to burn up in the transistor. Not critical until Q6 oveheats.  

R14 is wired into the formant switches, which may be why mine don't work. R15 might have a role there as well.

I'm forming a test process in my head. I think the thing to do is to get the filters to where signal goes through them, then to feed a voltage/pot signal into points 8 and 9 on the filter board. We know these voltages are between 2.4V and ? 6.5V? on the measured units. So we get one filter, then the other to respond and filter with that voltage. It cuts down on the "everything has to work before anything can work".

Also on the console board:
C3 (1u Dino/.01u schem) - coupling cap, mentioned earlier
C4 & C5 (470n Dino/4.7n schem) - Argh! Right in the flip-flop!
C7 (1u Dino/.01u schem) - supply filter cap, post-regulator. No biggie, as I'm already pretty noise-free.

Updating.

ok, please disregard the previous listing...
this is the updated fall plate board resistor bom..

You guys are updating so fast I'm having trouble keeping up in the spreadsheet!  
I think I got all those.
AGH! two new posts!

c1 ...

Looks consistent down to here:

c29 tantalum, orange, brown white

Schemo says 220pF. I didn't know they made tantalum that small. That doesn't mean they didn't. Maybe dip ceramic??

Thanks again, Jimi! I notice you measured R63 as 9.4k, but listed it as 82k in your final list (it's 12k in the schem). Which is it?

I think it's 12K.

[Keppy]

The cap values look pretty good, with the following notes:

C12 is supposed to be .22uF, which would be RRYWR. I suspect there is a double band of red there that you read as one band, otherwise the multiplier's way too big.
Same for C17 & C20, which should be .33uF (OOYWR). That matches with your readings if the orange band is double-thick.
C26 & C30 are .15uF in the schem (BrGYWR). Either you mistook green for black or the caps in your unit are .1uF. If there is a discrepancy, I'm guessing it's not big enough to matter.

In short, these all appear to match the schem. Thanks for the hard work!

[pinkjimiphoton]

Thanks again, Jimi! I notice you measured R63 as 9.4k, but listed it as 82k in your final list (it's 12k in the schem). Which is it?

r 63 is reading 9.4k on my pedal. sorry bro!!

[Keppy]

R14 is wired into the formant switches, which may be why mine don't work. R15 might have a role there as well.

I'm forming a test process in my head. I think the thing to do is to get the filters to where signal goes through them, then to feed a voltage/pot signal into points 8 and 9 on the filter board. We know these voltages are between 2.4V and ? 6.5V? on the measured units. So we get one filter, then the other to respond and filter with that voltage. It cuts down on the "everything has to work before anything can work".

I might have been unclear about this. The filters in my unit pass signal. They just don't filter, except for a small amount of treble filtering in parallel mode.

You guys are updating so fast I'm having trouble keeping up in the spreadsheet!  
I think I got all those.
AGH! two new posts!

I'm keeping my own list, which I'll send you when we get it working.

Thanks again, Jimi! I notice you measured R63 as 9.4k, but listed it as 82k in your final list (it's 12k in the schem). Which is it?

I think it's 12K.

Noted!

[R.G.]

Kewl.

[Keppy]

c29 tantalum, orange, brown white

Schemo says 220pF. I didn't know they made tantalum that small. That doesn't mean they didn't. Maybe dip ceramic??

Again, a double orange band gives us 220pF, if the white is just a tolerance code.

[pinkjimiphoton]

The cap values look pretty good, with the following notes:

C12 is supposed to be .22uF, which would be RRYWR. I suspect there is a double band of red there that you read as one band, otherwise the multiplier's way too big.
Same for C17 & C20, which should be .33uF (OOYWR). That matches with your readings if the orange band is double-thick.
C26 & C30 are .15uF in the schem (BrGYWR). Either you mistook green for black or the caps in your unit are .1uF. If there is a discrepancy, I'm guessing it's not big enough to matter.

In short, these all appear to match the schem. Thanks for the hard work!

yah, keppy, i was wondering why the bands on some were wider than others!!  

your're right about c12, c17, c20...

c 26 and c 30  iare indeed brown, green yellow white red. sorry bro. these damn eyes have gone to poo since i gave up pot.

i am totally glad to be able to help tho...hopefully now we'll be able to figure out what's wrong...and i bet the issues you've been facing will all be alot easier to sort out bro.

rock on!! i am going to bed...nite, ya'll!