Ludwig Phase II Clone Tech Notes

[pinkjimiphoton]

here's the voltage readings on the points labeled 1-23 on the fallboard layout...where all the wires connect.

connection point voltages, fall board layout
all effects etc on, dc scale 200v

1   0v
2   0
3   0
4   modulating, 16.8 - 17.1
5   35.5
6   .5
7   .1
8   modulating, 3.6 - 4.4
9   modulating, 5.6 - 6.2
10  0
11 modulating, 5.9 - 6.8
12 modulating, 5.9 - 6.8
13  0
14  0
15  4.6
16  .1
17  0
18  0
19  2.3
20  modulating, 3.7 - 5.2
21  modulating, 7.4 - 7.8
22  0
23  0

[Keppy]

Huh. I already had a 4.7k for R32. I guess 2 wrongs CAN make a right. Anyway...

THE FORMANTS ARE WORKING!!!

Those other 6 transistor substitutions did the trick! Still no animation, though.

The unit now has a much different sound than it did. Before, it just sounded treble boosted when it was on with no fuzz or formants. Now it sounds heavily filtered, kind of a wah-left-in-place effect. The volume seems to have dropped as well, compared to before. Would that be because I replaced the 47k base-collector resistor on the terminal strip with 68k, or something else?

[pinkjimiphoton]

time to play with the trimmers now bro. one at a time. do you have the exp pedal hooked up? animation at this point is secondary. the treadle will control the formants...all animation is really is like an lfo or something that sweeps the formants. if it works with the pedal like a wah, you're almost there. trimmer r31 will let you fine tune the pedal...you're not gonna get the formants working right without it i'm afraid, as so much is dependant on the treadle...that's what literally sets the RANGE of the formant filters. the animation is secondary, and won't work in my experience here until you get that one dialed in. you'll suddenly most likely find a sweet spot where it comes to life, and begins self oscillating. when you get there (and it can and will happen at a couple spots along that trimmer's range, including making the pedal work backwards...ie: bass toe down rather than treble) back off just slightly. then hit trimmer r29. that will also help you dial in the treadle.

make sure that r 65 is (as it looks on the schematic) all the way counterclockwise, then back off just a little tiny tiny bit.

r41 and r62 will control the ratio between fuzz and formant. put 'em about half way up.

r77 if i recall when mine broke is the intensity for the fuzz repeat...when the formants weren't working, anyways.

the fact that ya have the %^&*ed wah sound and a volume drop are GOOD signs...that means the formant filters are working, if they weren't, you'd just have a loud, trebly fuzz at this point. try the exp pedal...if it goes thru a couple  vowel sounds, you know you got it and it's just something with the lfo or whatever that is used to sweep the formants. even when the animation is working, the RANGE of the formants is determined by the treadle. ya gotta have that part hooked up,, or it just won't do it's thing, keppy.

damn, dude, i am so psyched for ya!!! it's just around the corner, i can smell it, and it smells GOOOOOOD~! 

[R.G.]

Congratulations! You're on the edge.

Jimi's right - play with the trimmers gently. R29 can take it all the way out of filtering to not filtering, all by itself.

When you get both filters to a usable point, let's get the rocker circuit working so you sweep both filters with the rocker. The LFO in the animation is being obstinate.

[pinkjimiphoton]

yah, the formants will only work with the treadle...seriously. hook that puppy up, and i bet suddenly everything will start to work.
in some positions of the treadle, you won't even HEAR the animation.

ya gotta hook that thing up, keppy!!

[Keppy]

Again, I was unclear:

THE FORMANTS ALL SWEEP ALONG WITH THE ROCKER PEDAL!!!

That's what I meant in the first place. The entire effect works now, except for the animation. The wah-in-place sound is with the formant sweeps OFF.

[R.G.]

Those other 6 transistor substitutions did the trick! Still no animation, though.

Did you mean resistor subs? Or did you have to change transistors?

The unit now has a much different sound than it did. Before, it just sounded treble boosted when it was on with no fuzz or formants. Now it sounds heavily filtered, kind of a wah-left-in-place effect. The volume seems to have dropped as well, compared to before. Would that be because I replaced the 47k base-collector resistor on the terminal strip with 68k, or something else?

The 47K to 68K change would not drop the volume a lot, if any. Actually, it should theoretically increase it. That's not the issue.

I think it may be the effect of filtering. With bandpass filters like these, the more heavily resonant they are, the more they select out only specific parts of the signal, and so most of the original signal is lost.

Again, I was unclear:
THE FORMANTS ALL SWEEP ALONG WITH THE ROCKER PEDAL!!!
That's what I meant in the first place. The entire effect works now, except for the animation. The wah-in-place sound is with the formant sweeps OFF.

Hot stuff! OK, now we go get the animation to work.

[Keppy]

Those other 6 transistor substitutions did the trick! Still no animation, though.

I meant RESISTOR substitutions. Sorry, I was excited.

[Keppy]

The unit now has a much different sound than it did. Before, it just sounded treble boosted when it was on with no fuzz or formants. Now it sounds heavily filtered, kind of a wah-left-in-place effect. The volume seems to have dropped as well, compared to before. Would that be because I replaced the 47k base-collector resistor on the terminal strip with 68k, or something else?

I think it may be the effect of filtering. With bandpass filters like these, the more heavily resonant they are, the more they select out only specific parts of the signal, and so most of the original signal is lost.

Should those filters be effecting the signal when the formant switches are off? The overall, basic volume of the effect is what dropped, as well as going through a tonal change (wah-in-place filter sound). The fuzz seems like it's more gated now, too (maybe). It's like the signal's being attenuated/filtered early in the chain even with the filters off. I can deal with that, but I'm curious as to the cause, as well as whether that's normal performance.

[pinkjimiphoton]

as rg says, YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-HAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FREEKIN' SWEET!!!!!!!!!!! COOL!!

now we just gotta get the formants sweeping...anything i can do to help? let me know!! i'll be watching!!!


i am so psyched for you...it's alive, It's Alive, IT'S ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE!!

[pinkjimiphoton]

The unit now has a much different sound than it did. Before, it just sounded treble boosted when it was on with no fuzz or formants. Now it sounds heavily filtered, kind of a wah-left-in-place effect. The volume seems to have dropped as well, compared to before. Would that be because I replaced the 47k base-collector resistor on the terminal strip with 68k, or something else?

I think it may be the effect of filtering. With bandpass filters like these, the more heavily resonant they are, the more they select out only specific parts of the signal, and so most of the original signal is lost.

Should those filters be effecting the signal when the formant switches are off? The overall, basic volume of the effect is what dropped, as well as going through a tonal change (wah-in-place filter sound). The fuzz seems like it's more gated now, too (maybe). It's like the signal's being attenuated/filtered early in the chain even with the filters off. I can deal with that, but I'm curious as to the cause, as well as whether that's normal performance.

yah, that seems normal. i think that's why they added on that little piece with the transistor on the strip board. with the fuzz on, it should be about unity..the bypass volume on the side of the fall board is to equalize the output of the effect to the bypass, which doesn't really work. it should get a slight volume drop with the fuzz, then get louder with the formant switches on. with them off, it sounds pretty gnarly...trebly, thin, and kinda compressed...in a bad way.

[Keppy]

I checked out the youtube vids you guys posted. With the fuzz & formants off, Dino's sounds like mine used to, but Jimi's sounds kinda like mine does now. Probably ok then. Do any of those trimmers affect the basic sound, fuzz & formants off?

[pinkjimiphoton]

yah, but not much, really. it seems to steal ALOT of the fuzz gain in the formant circuit...when mine broke, the two trimmers r 41 and r62 controlled the overall volume AND  the fuzz intensity...but once i fixed r29, it didn't really matter. me and dino are on the horn right no....congrats!!1!

[digi2t]

Oh man, I got home tonight, checked in here, and just about pee'd myself. I called up Jimi, got a cold one out of the fridge, and had a swig for everybody involved. I know it might be a bit premature, seeing how the modulation isn't up yet, but that's a formality at this point.

I checked out the youtube vids you guys posted. With the fuzz & formants off, Dino's sounds like mine used to, but Jimi's sounds kinda like mine does now. Probably ok then. Do any of those trimmers affect the basic sound, fuzz & formants off?

Not to my knowledge to date. The fuzz is straight out of the box, with the Fuzz/Fuzz Voice slider for intensity adjustment. The difference between units that you noticed is probably due to pure crap recording quality. I did however play with the treadle pot gear position on mine, and it provides some flexibility in the "vocal" sweep of the unit. They have some play at either end of the pot travel, but too much is useless, there is not much difference past certain points either way.

Kep, do you still need the collector voltage from the console trannies? If so, I'll do them tonight because we're leaving for a baseball tourney all weekend. I'll tell you what, I'll measure them anyway, and post later tonight. I'll get the voltages off the UJT as well.

Personally, I haven't really detected any trimmer that affects the fuzz alone. Straight fuzz out of this unit is just plain nasty (and weak), like a wah left toe down. It gets boosted when you click on a formant, any formant. I wish I knew enough about this to be able to say, "Screw it, let's stick a Tonebender fuzz circuit in here instead!". It seems like these babies we're just not meant to be straight fuzz boxes. I should be getting the other unit next week as well. I'm looking forward to loking inside to see if there are any surprises in that one. Forget the box of chcolates.... Life is like a Ludwig!!

As I told Jimi on the phone, what Kep's got now, is a recreation of a 70's effect. Once everything is operational, as per the original, it would be cool to maybe refine it somewhat. Keep the mojo, but make it a bit more practical. Boost the fuzz, a comprehensive volume control, stuff that would render it a bit more practical in todays terms. I'm sure ideas will be plentiful.

WOW, I still can't believe it. I'm just sooo proud that I could contribute to this adventure.

[pinkjimiphoton]

right on, dino..

keppy, dumb question, and just a shot in the dark, but make sure that you have the animation rate turned all the way down....it also affects the speed of the fuzz repeat, and if ya got them pegged, and the console board trimmer that controls the speed set too fast, your animation may be modulating so darn fast, it may SEEM like it's doing nothing...
and following the murphy's law rule of potentiometers, 50% of the time a pot can get wired backwards.

not saying ya made a mistake brother, just thinking maybe you're not getting the expected animation cuz the rate is too great to hear. i mean, when it's pegged, at certain spots, it may do what you describe.

like i said, just a shot in the dark...

i can not wait to build one of these things...and, hopefully, down the road, take this volkswagen and turn it into a modern mazerati!!!!

can't wait to hear more good news...

champagnah is in oerder... lol

[digi2t]

OK, tranny readings from the console. I did the best to read them with the DMM, but with the animation on, some readings are impossible to get.

Q1
E - 31.57V
C - 33.38V
B - 29.17V RATE SWITCH ON FAST, 15mV RATE SWITCH ON SLOW

Q2
E - JUMPS BETWEEN 5V AND 7V WITH ANIMATION ON, 11.2mV WITH ANIMATION OFF
B1 - JUMPS BETWEEN 13.99V AND 14.50V WITH ANIMATION ON, 14.52V WITH ANIMATION OFF.
B2 - JUMPS BETWEEN 0.508V AND 0.548V WITH ANIMATION ON, 0.5V WITH ANIMATION OFF.

Q3
E - 0V
C - 70mV WITH ANIMATION OFF, JUMPS TOO MUCH TO READ WITH ANIMATION ON
B - 58.5mV WITH ANIMATION OFF, JUMPS TOO MUCH TO READ WITH ANIMATION ON

Q4
E - 0V
C - 58.5mV WITH ANIMATION OFF, JUMPS TOO MUCH TO READ WITH ANIMATION ON
B - 0.693V WITH ANIMATION OFF, JUMPS TOO MUCH TO READ WITH ANIMATION ON

Q5
E - 0V
C - 8.05V WITH ANIMATION OFF, JUMPS BETWEEN 6V AND 10V WITH ANIMATION ON
B - 0.611V WITH ANIMATION ON

Q6
E - 33.75V
B - 34.28V
C - 46.5V

Hope this helps.

[R.G.]

For digging into the animation, we need to figure out whether the UJT is doing anything at all or not.

I think we may be able to do this with an audio probe. The signals at B2 and B1 will make *big* clicks to an audio probe if they're there. So big that we probably need a divider to protect the amp.

Kep, you may want to use an audio probe, but with a capacitor feeding a 100K resistor to the signal line to the amp, and a 1K from signal line to ground. This 100:1 divider will keep the spike levels down, and should be safe for the amp. If you hear nothing, you can go to a 100K/10K divider or even a 100K/100K divider. If it's working, I'd expect to hear ticks which repeat at a speed controlled by the animation rate.

[Keppy]

keppy, dumb question, and just a shot in the dark, but make sure that you have the animation rate turned all the way down....it also affects the speed of the fuzz repeat, and if ya got them pegged, and the console board trimmer that controls the speed set too fast, your animation may be modulating so darn fast, it may SEEM like it's doing nothing...
and following the murphy's law rule of potentiometers, 50% of the time a pot can get wired backwards.

I wired the pot for minimum resistance when turned up and verified the wiring. Of course, I've verified other things and STILL gotten them wrong... Like how the fuzz repeat knob on mine is forever labeled Intens. Fuzz FFM.
I've kept the knob all the way up for the most part based on R.G.'s advice, but every time I change something I cycle it down & up just to check.

Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming! I'm not offended by you thinking of mistakes I might have made when my effect doesn't work right!

[pinkjimiphoton]

heck, rg, couldn't kep just use the fuzz repeat to test with? i mean, that thing should be clicking...or "ticking" loud i'd imagine.

keppy, does the fuzz repeat tick? if it does, does the speed of the ticking vary with the animation rate?

as for an audio probe, REAL dumb question, but what about the jack darr method of just using a finger (with the other hand in your pocket) to see if a buzz happens?

sorry for the dumb questions, but again, i am but an egg here...

rg, can you figure out enough to tell me WHAT stuff would be involved to figure out voltage readings etc that may help?

i'm willing to read every connection on the board if that's what it takes.

[pinkjimiphoton]

keppy, dumb question, and just a shot in the dark, but make sure that you have the animation rate turned all the way down....it also affects the speed of the fuzz repeat, and if ya got them pegged, and the console board trimmer that controls the speed set too fast, your animation may be modulating so darn fast, it may SEEM like it's doing nothing...
and following the murphy's law rule of potentiometers, 50% of the time a pot can get wired backwards.

I wired the pot for minimum resistance when turned up and verified the wiring. Of course, I've verified other things and STILL gotten them wrong... Like how the fuzz repeat knob on mine is forever labeled Intens. Fuzz FFM.
I've kept the knob all the way up for the most part based on R.G.'s advice, but every time I change something I cycle it down & up just to check.

Thanks for the advice. Keep it coming! I'm not offended by you thinking of mistakes I might have made when my effect doesn't work right!

dude, the fuzz repeat is probably the least useable part of the whole feckin' piece!! lol..

seriously, i would start with it down, not up. that may be part of the equation as to what's messing you up. right now, first things first, we need to get the modulation part figured out. tho the animation includes the fuzz repeat, the first two controls are the most important imho. you're gonna most likely want the intensity full tilt, and the rate as low as possible so you can hear the diff...at the highest rate, it's gonna make a really fast tremolo-y babbling sound if it's working. a slower sweep will be a lot easier to hear.

i bet it's gonna be something we just ain't seeing that's gonna be really freekin' obvious.
but it doesn't matter...the fact of the matter is it's alive...

and it can be elusive, and it can run, but it'll die tired, and be frankenstein'd back to life.