Colorsound Vocalizer vero

[pinkjimiphoton]

checked that diode...4 v on one side, zero on the other. at least part of the problem is that god forsaken conductive plastic pot. it's hosed and intermittent. can only heat 'em up so much i guess.

[Ronan]

Hey Jimi, before you go pulling that zener out, it might be worth checking the voltage across it with the IC's pulled out, and also make sure R6 is 2K2 (red/red/red) and not 22K (red/red/orange)...

[digi2t]

Hey Jimi, before you go pulling that zener out, it might be worth checking the voltage across it with the IC's pulled out, and also make sure R6 is 2K2 (red/red/red) and not 22K (red/red/orange)...

Good catch Ronan. Or maybe the 3080 is toast, and sucking some to ground? R6 is right at the 9v supply pin, so maybe it could go either way. Pull the 3080, and check the voltages at the zener again. I can't see an IC sucking almost 1v on it's own.

[pinkjimiphoton]

all the resistors are 1% precision. the zener is working. the prob seems to be the pot.

[pinkjimiphoton]

ok, so i checked the pot...it's not exactly close in terms of tolerance between the sides, one side reads about 25k and the other about 20. but both sides work well linearly when swept. so i wired up a dual 100k linear pot i had kicking around, and am now sure i was wrong...and it's probably the chip, as now it barely wahs no matter how wired or hooked up, and when it does, it doesn't react to the treadle, it just kinda sweeps then decays.

ordered new chips. when they come in, i'll try again bro.

[digi2t]

Well, I finally got a little work space set up. Of course, Murphy's Law dictates that now that I'm set up, the house will sell, and I'll have to tear it all down and move it again. But, I digress...

I breadboarded the circuit, as per the schematic. Guitar to the circuit, circuit to the amp. Fuzz knob maxed. Here's a video of the first test (sorry for the crappy sound, it's a crappy camera );

It get's a decent YOY going one way, and a faint bit of a OOH WAA coming back. Yet, I don't seem to have a huge hump in the middle. From heel to toe, it seems to go from bass to treble, like a normal wah, except there is a distinct YOY in the middle. I played around with different cap values as well around the quad opamp, but the stated values seem to give the best YOY. I tried swapping out the 220/680 220/680pF set up, for a 1.5nF like the Dipthonizer, but I lost a lot of top end. Enough to lose the YOY. I just realized that on the vero, those caps are listed as "nF", it should be "pF". It will be corrected. Could be what's screwing you up Jimi. SAAAAAWWWWWEEEEEEEE  

I'll need to update the vero insofar as the tranny is concerned. It should be a silicon PNP. I tested 2N3906, 2N5087, 2N2904A, 2N2905A and 2N2907A. What you hear is the 2N3906. Actually, to my ears, the 3906 and 5087 sounded the best insofar as the sweep is concerned. R.G. was right, silicon diodes, require a silicon transistor. That allows the 3080 to do it's thing properly.

I might incorporate a 3 or 4 position switch for the voicing caps on mine. I'm going to audition some more combinations, and then pair them up to get different tones. Might prove interesting.

Here are the corrected veros;



and with alternate IC's



My apologies again on the cap goof.

[pinkjimiphoton]

dino, is that with the treadle pot wired as per schem?

more important, quick-like, which caps need to be swapped specifically?

great work bro

[digi2t]

Yup, wired as per the schem. How the tone of the wah goes (heel to toe) will determine whether the white wire will be on pole 1 or 3. If the wah is backwards, just move the white wire to the opposite pole. The other side of the pot is as the schem.

As for the caps, here is what we talked about. With the 4 caps, it looks like this;



If you go with the two 820pF's or 1nF's, then it should look like this;



The magic happens right in here, between 800pF and 1nF. That's why the original runs 2 caps in parallel to achieve 900pF.

Sorry again for the aggravation with the mislabeled caps. You'll see, BIG MUCHO difference... with the right caps  .

Also, the 3K resistor listed (near the tranny), should be 3K. It's an oddball size, but they're available. I tried sub'ing a 2.7 and a 3.3, but it didn't work right. For the test, I strung two 1.5's together. The 3K is on order. Tranny I'm going with is a 2N3906. That's what's in there in the video.

[pinkjimiphoton]

done and working....


we have achieved YOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[digi2t]

Kewl!!  

I just looked around for 900pF caps. They're available in Silver Mica. The cheapest I found them was 1.29$ each, from Just Radios, here in Canada. Problem is, silver mica's big, and take up a lot of space. So, I'm going to stick with my tiny ole ceramics. I'm going to test different caps too. If I can make a voicing selector, I'm going for it. I have a 4 position switch kicking around.

I'm putting this sucker together this week. Yeah baby!! Back in the saddle again!

[pinkjimiphoton]

i'm annoying the whole neighborhood as i type.

this thing is freekin SWEET!!! 

[digi2t]

We need another "Stupid Guitar Tricks" installment!!!

I just had a freakin' idea...

I wonder if I could adapt the LFO from the Uglyface to this. I'm looking at the drawings, but it's not jumping out at me. Then you could have 2 modes, normal YOY wah, or the LFO YOY'ing, while you sweep the frequencies with the pedal.

DAMN, I wish I was smarter....

[pinkjimiphoton]

i like the way your mind works. another installment of stupid pedal tricks is forthcoming.

all ya gotta do is connect the output of the lfo to the  filter's inputs. time to ask rg i think!!

it could be really sweet like that!!!

[digi2t]

Hey bro, try this for a bit more hair on the fuzz.

Change R9 (1M), for a 2.7M resistor. Boosts the gain of the fuzz more. Lots more. That's the set up in the Dipthonizer. If it's too bright, add a 100 to 220 pF cap parallel with the resistor. Be careful with the cap though, it will impact on the YOY.

Disconnect D6. Leave D5 in. Actually, if you go with just one clipping diode, I noticed that it clips more one way than the other. It's fuzzier with the cathode (black band) on pin 3 of the opamp, and less flipped around. Actually, with the cathode on pin 3, and no diode at all, there is only a tiny difference. Then again, it's hard for me to tell, because my small crapbox practice amp breaks up when you just look at it hard   Try it with one diode, and flip it around, you'll hear a big difference. Personally, I'm a big asymetrical clip fan.

Or, remove both diodes, and use a 2N7000 mosfet. Can sounds really mellow. Tie the center leg (gate) to the drain. Put it in place of the diodes, across pins 1 and 3. Like the one diode, try it both ways. It clips a bit more one way than the other.

It will be crunchier though. Crunchy enough that you might think about adding a volume control where the 330 ohm resistor (R22) is (was?).

[phector2004]

Sick! That sounds awesome!

And the list gets bigger...

[pinkjimiphoton]

hey dino,
that sounds hip...but i think i'm gonna leave it stock, other than eventually changing them 1n's to 900pf's. the fuzz in this thing now works great, and isn't at all subtle!

the output resistor i replaced a long time ago with a 500r trimmer...i just leave it cranked.

but the mods you've found sound hip, and possibly should be added to the layout as mods, some could be made switchable even!!

great work bro...i hope to have some clips up of mine soon!

[deadastronaut]

We need another "Stupid Guitar Tricks" installment!!!

I just had a freakin' idea...

I wonder if I could adapt the LFO from the Uglyface to this. I'm looking at the drawings, but it's not jumping out at me. Then you could have 2 modes, normal YOY wah, or the LFO YOY'ing, while you sweep the frequencies with the pedal.

DAMN, I wish I was smarter....

yep!, that's  what i did with my lightwah, i used a ' phozer' lfo,from runoffgroove (tiny mod on it to get a nice smooth slow sweep too)

rig up an lfo with led pulsing from dim to bright into an ldr which is in place of your pot....and/or switch between both!..sorted!..

[digi2t]

Rob... that's totally ironic!!! I just printed the Phozer project yesterday! I have some vactrols kicking around, and that LFO seems to be right for intregration into this. At first I was thinking Uglyface, but it's structure isn't right. Phozer seems to be very good though. I'm just trying to figure out how to make the LFO and the pedal interact. I thought maybe using the pedal to control the speed when in LFO mode, or to have a speed knob, and keep the pedal for sweeping the frequencies, a la Ludwig Phase II.

It's just that I'm still too nooby, and I'm still trying to put the pieces together. I tell you though, I'm so glad I invested in a breadboard! Tons o fun!!

Any input you may have would be welcome. Like I like to say, I love going to bed at night less stooopid 

[deadastronaut]

yeah breadboard is the way to go..always!...don't worry, i'm still a noob too...lots to learn...but great noisey fun on the way too..

so you want both lfo and treadle on at the same time...hmmmm...could be interesting...

heres the lfo i used, it works great...i used 2 superbright led's, coz i wanted a speed indicator on the enclosure too...which could be on your wah case...breadboard it and try it in place of your treadle pot for now
just to see/hear how it goes...just connect an ldr/vactrol to pot lugs 3 -2 wires i guess....should be ok.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/LFOBITCH.jpg

tlo72
2n3904....

[Keeb]

I just want to let you guys know that I'm thoroughly impressed by what you have done with this project.
Although my part in all this is minimal (you guys would have found the schematic anyways) it makes me happy to see the DIY spirit and collaboration put in to this.

Keep it up!