Colorsound Vocalizer vero

[paulyy]

heh heh....do a search for ludwig phase II  

I've checked it too and sounds pretty cool but I still find that the vocalizer stands on its own. Great vids by the way

YEAH BABY!!! NOW DAT'S WHAT I BE VOCALIZING ABOUT   Great job bro.

Wow! This sounds great! Reminds me of a talkbox. Guessing that's what it might be based off. Will there be a pcb soon? Great work guys!

PCB already exists on the net dude, do a search, you should find it pretty easily. That's what I based my vero on. Besides, I stick to vero, since I'm not equipped to do PCB's.

I googled searched and didn't find much but I remembered most people who post things here probably post stuff on freestompbox.com. Sure enough, I found a layout for a pcb. When I get time. I want to give this a try. I think what's really cool about this project is its not your standard vox or crybaby type wah sound. I could have fun with this. Thanks.

[paulyy]

Ok! I went ahead and made pcb from a layout I found at (FST), I later found it on this forum as well and got it all wired up and it worked, But it sounds like a blown amp. The fuzz sounds really crappy and gated sounding. I'm using the same green plastic pot that everyone else seems to be using. I check everything that might be wrong, resistors, caps and wiring. Even solder bridges. Everything looks good but not sounding good. I think its something with the input. I touched the pcb just pass the first 100nf cap and it seemed to clean up nicely but got distorted again. I'm using a 1N4732A diode instead of the 1n750a. They both read 4.7 and a silicon pnp transistor, low gain. I'll try to post pics soon. Any ideas anyone.

[paulyy]

Hope this helps.

[pinkjimiphoton]

the caps that should add up to 900n SHOULD be 900 PICOFARAD, off by that great a factor, all you get is horrible blatty distortion...had the same prob, it's mismarked on the schem. once ya replace them caps, you'll be good...you're  off by a factor of 1000 now, so it can't get formants and sounds like sh^t, no doubt.

good luck!

[paulyy]

the caps that should add up to 900n SHOULD be 900 PICOFARAD, off by that great a factor, all you get is horrible blatty distortion...had the same prob, it's mismarked on the schem. once ya replace them caps, you'll be good...you're  off by a factor of 1000 now, so it can't get formants and sounds like sh^t, no doubt.

good luck!

Do you mean replace the 680pf's or the 220pf's on the board. Thats the only picofarads on the board. Thanks

[pinkjimiphoton]

if you already have 680 and 220 pf's than that's not the problem...they're there to add up to 1 900pf cap for each side of the filter. on the vero, was marked nano, no pf...so the first build was way off and didn't work, tho it did pass signal with a pretty horrible distortion. changing it to the intended pf caps there made a world of diff, tho i used a pair of 910pf's instead cuz they had 'em at the store.
i'm outta electricity down here, so can't help much, but read the debugging thread and post back with voltages etc and we'll no doubt have ya right as rain in no time.


looking at it tho, i can't tell...but it looks to me like you may have the 3080 in backwards. check the polarity, every 3080 i've seen should have the printing going the other way, unless it's flipped on the pcb version from normal.

[digi2t]

Do not use a silicon tranny, it doesn't drive the 3080 well. Use any Ge switching tranny. Any cheap Ge switching tranny will do. Ge provides a much nicer sweep through the 3080. It has nothing to do with the gain of the tranny, it's not in the audio path. Silicon works, but...

You should have a 220pF and a 680pF cap in parallel, to give you 900pF, NOT nF. Or like Jimi, single 910's will do as well. Pico farad. 4.7nF on the other side.

Your electros aren't really blowin' my skirt up tho'. Those long leads, I believe, just act as antenae for RF. Component leads should be as short as possible. Less mechanical stress, and less prone to pick up stuff you don't want to be hearing. Double check the orientation of your electros as well. Your IC's look OK to me, as per the original.

CHECK ALL YOUR GROUNDS!!! Mine started out kind of fartty on the breadboard, until I realized that one of my jack grounds wasn't tied to the rest. Make sure all your grounds go back to your power source, and not just to (or through) the body. As per the original, even the fuzz pot body is solder gounded to the PCB. The pedal pot being plastic doesn't hurt anything, mine works great.

Finally, ensure that your solder side is not touching the casing anywhere. I can't see how you've mounted your board, so it's worring me.

[pinkjimiphoton]

check the black wires near the red wire near that circular trace on the pcb...just to the left of the black wire, it looks like a break in the trace, or a scratch thru it. make sure you have continuity there. post on fsb too, boris can probably help ya out.

[paulyy]

Thanks for the replies guys. First off, All the traces are good and all grounds are covered. Even the ground on the fuzz pot. I went ahead and replaced all the standing 2.2uf caps with standered 2.2uf caps. The 100uf was replaced as well. I have to ask but what caps I,m I replacing? I,m I replacing the 681pf's with 900pf's or I'm I replacing one or both of the 472nf caps or one of the four 104nf caps? I replaced the two 681pfs for 900pfs and it sounded less distorted but still distorted.
As far as transistors, All I have is silicon transistors. No Germanium. I did buy some Ge MP20B today from ebay so hopfully It will help get rid of the distortion in the signal path.
I cant give readings right now because my muitie meter took a crap today. I think it needs new batteries I guess I'll have to wait until I get some parts in and mess with it again later. I'll post as soon as I get parts in. Thanks guys.

[digi2t]

Here, I have this;

I have to ask but what caps I,m I replacing? I,m I replacing the 681pf's with 900pf's or I'm I replacing one or both of the 472nf caps or one of the four 104nf caps? I replaced the two 681pfs for 900pfs and it sounded less distorted but still distorted.

Maybe it will help. You can see in the lower right, the 680 and 220 pF's. You should have two 680pF's, and two 220pF's. If you decide to go with 910pF's, then you should ONLY have two 910pF's, both in place of the 220's OR 680's. The remaining two spots can stay empty. The 4n7 means 4.7nF (code 472), NOT 472nF.

The MP20B will be fine, that's what I'm using in mine. Works great.

Hope this helps,
Dino

[paulyy]

@digi2t
I was looking at the way you have your pot wired and noticed that you have a green wire connected to the gray wire. Is the green wire going to ground?

[digi2t]

@digi2t
I was looking at the way you have your pot wired and noticed that you have a green wire connected to the gray wire. Is the green wire going to ground?

Yes sir. It's there because I forgot a jumper on my vero, so I cheated  . I just didn't feel like pulling the board out.

[paulyy]

@digi2t
I was looking at the way you have your pot wired and noticed that you have a green wire connected to the gray wire. Is the green wire going to ground?

Yes sir. It's there because I forgot a jumper on my vero, so I cheated  . I just didn't feel like pulling the board out.

Ok. I should be good then. Thanks for showing me what you where talking about the 220/680 combo. It looks like I had it right the first time.

[paulyy]

Well I got the MP20B transisters in and the pedal still sounds the same . After reading thru some pages back. I notice Jimi had the same problems as I did but still cant figure it out. I did get reading from the diode. 4.01 before and 0.00 after the diode. I'll try and get more but have to go to bed.

[pinkjimiphoton]

hi pauly,
in mine, i'm having the same problems you describe again intermittently.
i've ordered another one of them horrid green pots, as it seems to only f up during a sweep with the wah pedal.

what i found is that the ca3080e chips, and the 4136n's are ALL over the place in this circuit..try different chips.

also, check the output resistor, i think it was 33k or something...in mine,  i took it out and replaced with a 50k trimmer so i could play with the output gain...sometimes messing with that resistor makes a difference...if the resistor is too big, you'll get a horrible blatty distortion.

the one transistor needs to be ge, and leaky is fine...in mine, i found polarity of this resistor didn't really matter...how's that for messed up?
but...

it doesn't sound right with silicon tranny. i think it's the leakage that makes it work.

last thing you may wanna try, if you did dino's mod to get more fuzz, try puttin it stock...mine i did dino's mod to, but it makes the fuzz sound horrible and gnarly thru solid state amps, tubes seem to be more forgiving...the fuzz should be kinda subtle, or it can dominate the formant effect in my opinion.

don't get me wrong..the higher gain sounds great thru some of my amps. seems to be a very moody pedal.

[digi2t]

4.01 before and 0.00 after the diode.

That sounds right. GND on one side, and voltage on the other. One thing I found though, not all zeners are created equal. That was made clear to me when I did the Mr. Multi. If the 1N750A is giving you 4.0v, try a BZX55C5V1 (5.1v) zener instead. It may get you closer to 4.7. In the Mr. Multi, I ended up having to use a 1N5229B (4.3v) zener, to get close to the 3.5v required by the circuit. You just have to work around the loss of voltage, up upping the zener.

As for the 3080, mine worked out of the gate, and with any of the 3 chips that I bought. Same for the 4136. BUT.... I could have had a horse shoe up my ass here. There's been lots of talk about bogus 3080 chips floating around. Keep an open mind here.

also, check the output resistor, i think it was 33k or something...in mine,  i took it out and replaced with a 50k trimmer so i could play with the output gain

DAMN, I forgot about that 330 ohm resistor. Take that out, and stick in a jumper. It seems to kill a lot of the output of the pedal. Sorry, I should have spotted that earlier. Jimi and I already went through that dilemma. I jumpered mine, Jimi uses a pot. Whatever blows your skirt up, but ditch it.

[pinkjimiphoton]

what i found with mine tho is without that 330 ohm resistor, the output is a little too hot.

i'm gonna re-solder it and see what happens when the new pot comes in.

[paulyy]

Thanks for your replies guys. I just happen to have Extra chips and pots (one of each). I give that a try. I have the 330 ohm on a trim pot but I'll see about jumping it and see what I get.
I tired afew different zener diodes and notice they can be off but I bought some 1n750a diodes for the hell of it and see if it will help. I have some other 4.7vs in there right now. I'll try others when I have more time.
I was just wondering, I read some where in the topic that the new 4136 chips might have a different pin out from the old ones. Is that true? Thanks

[pinkjimiphoton]

all the 4136's i've encountered seem to be the same bro...but i'm the wrong guy to ask!!

[paulyy]

Well I think I have to give up I replaced just about everything on my board still get the same results. The only thing it might be is the chips are bad of the layout its self is bad. I just cant seem to get it to work right. I put it to the side for now and maybe one day I'll revisit it. I did notice one thing. When I unplug the power and put it back in, The pedal sounds clean and undistorted but after 5sec it starts to distort again. Well thanks for your help guys. Its been fun