Stompbox to make a guitar sound like a fiddle

[Mark Hammer]

I could have sworn somebody made this box with a tiny Jimmy Page in it, and when you pressed a button he hauled out his bow. 

Seriously, though, amptramp is on the right track with his answer, and RG is on the right track with his question.

"Like" encompasses a very broad set of parameters.  Some of what makes a violin sound as it does is the harmonic content of the sustained note.  Some of it is the amplitude envelope and the attack parameters.  Some of it is the harmonic content when the box strikes the strings.  Some of it is the shifting harmonic content when a bow is pulled back versus pushed forward.  And no doubt there is much more than that.

Different devices accomplish different aspects or subsets of that.  Achieving what you requested involves either carving out which particular aspect interests you most, or assembling a bunch of things to get "the whole package".

[Fender56]

Instead of the costly GR-55, you can try the Sonuus I2M (or G2M). It is a guitar-to-MIDI converter that uses the guitar's own pickups, so no modification and you can use any guitar (or bass, or even microphone). It works quite well, but it is monophonic. It is about 100$.

http://www.sonuus.com/

I think Sonuus is a division of Peterson tuner.

[WesMVaughan]

The G2M looks like a decent compromise. If it is anything like the fiddle synth on the RG-55 it will be decent enough.  So After running into thi device you would have to run into a Multi-effects MIDI station? or some kind of device to change the sounds?

So can a Harmonic reshaper be made in a stompbox?

[oldschoolanalog]

The G2M looks interesting.
However (from their website):
Note: the G2M™ doesn't include its own MIDI sounds, you must use a suitable MIDI synthesizer, sound module or your computer to record or to hear the MIDI output.
Depending on what gear you already own this can be a good inexpensive alternative to a GR type guitar synth. If you need to purchase the aforementioned gear the monetary investment can go up rather quickly.
Only you can decide...

[Quackzed]

that gizmotron is awesome. i'd read about 'em. that jimmy page had one, but i'd never seen a demo. sounds alot better than i'd thought it would...
now i just have to convince myself it's rediculous to design one with a little motor and spring 'actuator levers'...

[WesMVaughan]

Looks like I am going to have to go MIDI b/c the harmonic re-shaper is a huge project.

So can anyone recommend me a decent budget MIDI synthesizer?

[artifus]

your computer?

*post coffee edit* plenty free vsti's out there. fine for home/studio use but not so great for live - reliability, etc.

decent budget midi synth recommendations is a pretty vague question, just keep an eye on ebay once you have a better idea of what you want, i guess.

if going for the diy gtr audio processing route i'd play with fuzz, filters, compression, reverb and practice my volume pedal foot for a vague approximation.

also, this: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=80030.0

[oldschoolanalog]

your computer?

If you want to go that route check out some of this:
http://electro-music.com/forum/forum-4.html

[deadastronaut]

you can always make it sound like a trumpet instead...been down that road!... 

@ 1:52.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78XVvOXcecY

sorry OT..

[WesMVaughan]

your computer?

That certainly is a possibility, unfortunately that means lugging around a desktop computer to gigs.

[R.G.]

One huge difference between guitar and fiddle is that the note loudness on a fiddle is variable depending on bow speed and pressure. It can start at any size relative to what's possible for it, then swell, shrink, stay level, whatever. A guitar's string attacks then decays exponentially or is held up by magnetic or acoustic feedback. You can compress guitar for a more constant level; you can use attack delay to make it start less abruptly. You can use a swell pedal AND a compressor to change loudness in the note.

To reproduce fiddle dynamics you'll have to at least compress, then use feedback, then a swell pedal in combination just to get the dynamics faked well.

And back to my question - how close is close enough? To get to 100%, you have to use a fiddle. To fake some aspect of it, you have to pick what you want to fake.

[Philippe]

Why not simply hire or recruit a fiddler to fulfill those tonal/musical requirements?

BTW, talked to a bluegrass fiddler regarding the actual difference(s) between a fiddle & a violin. While they are essentially the same instrument, the bridge on a fiddle is oftentimes slightly flattened to allow for easier double-stops.

[oldschoolanalog]

Check out this sound (it's guitar):
http://www.amazon.com/Dreams-Wide-Awake-Original/dp/B000S3X1BO
Something like that?

[WesMVaughan]

Dreams Wide Awake.
That is a cool little clip. That sounds closer to a Harmonica to me which would be another cool sound to get out of guitar. I would like to hear that guitar played in a country setting. Are they using some kind of synth for that?

I am gonna try out the synthesizers at GC tomorrow and a friend of mine has some GR-3X's I am gonna try out. If that doesn't work, I might consider taking up the fiddle.
I just thought it would be a hoot to get the guitar to sound like a fiddle.
Even the Violin synth on the TuxGuitar Tab/notation software would be close enough. Listening to the song Rebel Meets Rebel. I can play the harmonized lead be detuning the top string of the guitar. However, picking dynamics aside, it still sounds like a guitar. IMO playing a fiddle(tone of a fiddle) like a guitar sounds more authentic than playing guitar(Tone of a guitar) like a fiddle.

[Guitar Guy]

Is there anyway a stompbox can be made to do this? Make the guitar sound like a fiddle? If not, why not?

I honeslty think the easiest way to got about this endeavor, is to design your own four string guit. Get a body of any style and a neck with a blank non-drilled head stock. Drill it for 4 stings, carve your own nut and create your own bridge to have a wicked radius. You will more than likely have to pull the frets re radius the fretboard and then sand to the same or at least really close radius as the strings and then refret it to make it work correctly. Next you woulod have to mod the body with some wicked rib curves for the bow to pass through, which would cause any sane person to want to refinish the body (Sand to bare wood and tru oil is surely the easiest way to go here). after all is said and done slap the thickest set of electric strings you can on her and go at it with a bow. Use blade pickups for cosmetics. You could call it the guit-olin and start a whole new rage in the rock, metal, country, and virtuoso scenes! Another cool thought is a compound radius...the bottom where the bow would contact the strings, have it be at a violin radius, but a the nut it would have gradually calmed to a common guitar radius, like 7.5in, 9in, or 16in.........ok ok ok, maybe there is an esier way, but this would surely be a cool and unique instrument.

[amptramp]

Is there anyway a stompbox can be made to do this? Make the guitar sound like a fiddle? If not, why not?

I honeslty think the easiest way to got about this endeavor, is to design your own four string guit. Get a body of any style and a neck with a blank non-drilled head stock. Drill it for 4 stings, carve your own nut and create your own bridge to have a wicked radius. You will more than likely have to pull the frets re radius the fretboard and then sand to the same or at least really close radius as the strings and then refret it to make it work correctly. Next you woulod have to mod the body with some wicked rib curves for the bow to pass through, which would cause any sane person to want to refinish the body (Sand to bare wood and tru oil is surely the easiest way to go here). after all is said and done slap the thickest set of electric strings you can on her and go at it with a bow. Use blade pickups for cosmetics. You could call it the guit-olin and start a whole new rage in the rock, metal, country, and virtuoso scenes! Another cool thought is a compound radius...the bottom where the bow would contact the strings, have it be at a violin radius, but a the nut it would have gradually calmed to a common guitar radius, like 7.5in, 9in, or 16in.........ok ok ok, maybe there is an esier way, but this would surely be a cool and unique instrument.

The biggest distinction between a guitar and violin/fiddle is the internal strut that connects the bridge to the back of the violin.  Leave that out and it will sound like a guitar.

[WesMVaughan]

Guitar Guy That is actually a good idea. I just borrowed a violin from a friend of mine and it is kicking my ass! I broke two strings just trying to tune the damned thing! I still have 2 strings on there, the bottom G and the 2nd A string.  I basically hooked it up to a tuner and tried playing each note chromatically to practice intonating each note properly. Did not work out too good. However he had no rosin and I have not had a chance to buy any yet. I am gonna give it another go but I like the idea of a guitar fretted violin.
Sort of like a mandolin with a violin fretboard radius so the strings can be bowed. I am only wondering how playable it will be. Obviously the fretboard will have to be scaled down from a regular guitar. One of the biggest things I am hanging up on though is the short-ass fretboard!

[Guitar Guy]

Guitar Guy That is actually a good idea. I just borrowed a violin from a friend of mine and it is kicking my ass! I broke two strings just trying to tune the damned thing! I still have 2 strings on there, the bottom G and the 2nd A string.  I basically hooked it up to a tuner and tried playing each note chromatically to practice intonating each note properly. Did not work out too good. However he had no rosin and I have not had a chance to buy any yet. I am gonna give it another go but I like the idea of a guitar fretted violin.
Sort of like a mandolin with a violin fretboard radius so the strings can be bowed. I am only wondering how playable it will be. Obviously the fretboard will have to be scaled down from a regular guitar. One of the biggest things I am hanging up on though is the short-ass fretboard!

it would be more playable than any normal guitar with a bow. Once I get better at wood working I'm thinkin gof giving it a try. I'm even coming up with ideas for a pickup with four splits so that each string gets its own set of magnets.