The Condor, and a quick question about linear CMOS

[egasimus]

Two "words", all caps: CD4049U OK?

Can't find a UBE or an UB. As far as I recall, a 4049 or 4069 just had to have an U for Unbuffered to be usable in linear mode, amirite?

And has anyone tried building ROG's Condor cab sim with the aforementioned ICs?

[anchovie]

You are right.

[egasimus]

Thanks

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Are you trying to find a "U" version of those ICs?

[egasimus]

I looked for UBE or just UB, but only found U. Does anyone have a list of what different CMOS suffixes mean? Googling only gives me datasheets for individual chips...

[Govmnt_Lacky]

I looked for UBE or just UB, but only found U. Does anyone have a list of what different CMOS suffixes mean? Googling only gives me datasheets for individual chips...

OK, well if you need some let me know. Maybe we can work out a trade or something 

I have 4009, 4049, and 4069 with the UBE suffix.

[egasimus]

Thanks for the offer Sadly, even if I had anything of interest, the cost of shipping would probably exceed the values of whatever we'd be trading. Several times I live in Bulgaria.

[Nasse]

4007 can be connected as inverter if I remember...

[egasimus]

^ that, and the 4009, are both good news. I admit I hadn't heard of them before - hey, I've only been familiar with the 4000 series for a couple of months.

Has anyone tried using the 4050 as a non-inverting buffer?

[danielzink]

This doesn't lend anything at all worthwhile to the question at hand - but I still wanted to say....

I built the ROG COndor cab sim - and the layout specc'd (2) TL072's ? which are 8 pin DIP - isn't the 4049 a 16 pin ?

Dan

[egasimus]

Yeah, 8+8=16, which is basically the same, right?



Actually, it goes like this. I've seen inverting opamp stages being replaced with the inverting buffers of a 4049UB (ROG Mr. EQ), so, in theory, the 4050 hex non-inverting buffer should also work as an alternative to the 4 non-inverting opamp stages in the Condor. Although the topology of non-inverting stages is different, and it might not be possible.

[danielzink]

Yeah, 8+8=16, which is basically the same, right?



Actually, it goes like this. I've seen inverting opamp stages being replaced with the inverting buffers of a 4049UB (ROG Mr. EQ), so, in theory, the 4050 hex non-inverting buffer should also work as an alternative to the 4 non-inverting opamp stages in the Condor. Although the topology of non-inverting stages is different, and it might not be possible.

Right - I was a bit confused as your original post stated "ROG's Condor" - which I assumed (you know what they say about assuming....) that you wanted to use the ROG layout - which is set up for the TL072's.

But really - you could use the ROG layout as a "blueprint" to come up with a different layout - incorporating the 4049..

see - it's all so clear to me now.



Dsn

[edvard]

...
Actually, it goes like this. I've seen inverting opamp stages being replaced with the inverting buffers of a 4049UB (ROG Mr. EQ), so, in theory, the 4050 hex non-inverting buffer should also work as an alternative to the 4 non-inverting opamp stages in the Condor. Although the topology of non-inverting stages is different, and it might not be possible.

No, it wouldn't.
The reason CMOS inverters work like inverting op-amps is for the very reason you stated... topology.
The way inverting amplifiers work, a portion of the (inverted) output is fed back to the input as a sort of gain control.
This conveniently requires only two points of connection - input and output; which is common to both op-amp based inverting amps and CMOS inverter stages.*

Non-inverting amplifiers are a bit more complex; you don't have negative feedback readily available from the output for gain control.
This requires the use of the inverting input of the op-amp (a well-known and infinitely-exploited arrangement), which a non-inverting CMOS does not have.

In reply to the original post:
Most parts suppliers stock UB and UBE chips, so if you can't get your hands on them, you're not looking in the right places.
Perhaps that is all you have in your parts bin?

The different suffixes are generally not universal, although the "B" and "UB" almost always mean what you would assume; Buffered and UnBuffered.
Beyond that, it's up the manufacturer to define what the codes mean.
Many of the common suffixes simply differentiate between different tolerances, whether military-grade or consumer grade, voltage limits, temperature tolerance, package type, all kinds of stuff.
Usually they are explained on the last few pages of any given spec sheet, and most of the time don't make much difference to us who (ab)use them in low-voltage room-temperature environments.



*The third (inverting input) leg in many inverting op-amp circuits is usually connected to ground or the common 4.5v reference voltage, so it can be effectively ignored as an element of the overall design; except to hook it up properly, of course.
CMOS inverters wired for linear mode operation are self-biasing; that is, the bias required at the input is actually taken from the output, which is somewhere in the vicinity of 1/2 the supply voltage.
Look up any CMOS inverter data sheet and look at the internal circuitry diagram and you'll see why...

[egasimus]

Thanks for the comprehensive post. This makes clear a lot of things.

Most parts suppliers stock UB and UBE chips, so if you can't get your hands on them, you're not looking in the right places.

More like not living in the right place, I'm afraid I actually considered ordering from Farnell, but they actually had less of the stuff which I need than the Bulgarian store I eventually decided to place my order with.

So, do you think a "U" suffix would, erm, suffice?

[egasimus]

Lol, just stopped by at the shop nearest to my home, and -bang!- turns out they have lots of cheap 4049UBE by STM. Damn 

[B Tremblay]

Actually, we did a bit of work with a CMOS version of the Condor while collaborating with Daniel Schwartz.  While it was an interesting approach, it did not offer enough improvements (compared to the Condor) to merit release.

[egasimus]

Hey, I'd love to see a schematic for that