Enclosure toner transfer failures - What could be wrong?

[Pigyboy]

I use thin glossy paper with an iron as hot as I can get it from the start for about 4 or 5 minutes max on a 1590A, then the box is so hot it burns thru my gloves. The bigger boxes make take a little more time but never more than 8-10 minutes for me personally. I do hold my transfer over a hot light until I see the bit of moisture in the paper curl away and the toner begin to get shiny, then I place it on the box(it is not hot enough from the light to stick) then place the iron over one side of the transfer while I hold it still long enough to stick then place the iron over the whole thing without moving it until it is all bonded. Work the iron over the whole thing and you can see where it is bonding underneath. I let it cool then place it in water just long enough to soak thru then I roll off where the graphic is and leave the rest of the paper. Some of the graphic will still have some of the paper film stuck to it so I use the blue 3M masking tape and tack it down lightly over the areas until it leaves a crisp line.The thin glossy paper doesn't melt or burn and the  object is to leave as much of the paper on the box as possible. It makes no sense to use PNP even if it was free you can never get enough toner on it to make a completely opaque covering of the box. The paper that adheres to the toner is the key to keeping the acid off the box.

[defaced]

Do you have a piece of copper clad PCB handy?  What does the design look like when you iron it on at?  That will help isolate the problem. 

[Kearns892]

Alright, not perfect, but much better!

I went to Office depot and had them print onto my transfer paper for this trial, but unfortunately it seems they scaled my image down slightly   !

Never the less this time I took Christopher's suggestion, I put the transfer under a lamp (it got warm but I don't think my lamp was hot enough to create any peeling, what exactly is the purpose of this) and went straight to full heat. While the paper came right up, I do have the beginnings of paper sticking over the toner in large black areas (something I typically get on properly transferred PCBs made with this paper).

Here is the result:



Darkest transfer, but also the blurriest in a few areas at least. For this transfer I did only 5 minutes and it is my best yet. Again this could be due to any number of variables, but looking at the box, would you all suggest more time or less time?

Thanks again, really making progress here!

Edit: just to clarify, most of the blurriness in the picture is due to the camera not the transfer itself.

[Kearns892]

Success!

10 minutes starting with full heat. This trial I had Office Depot Xerox toner on thick photo paper. I also let it cool for a significant amount of time before attempting to pull it off. When I did finally go to pull it off, instead of peeling straight off as before, the paper satisfyingly stuck to the enclosure! I soaked it for about an hour then started to rub off paper around the holes with my thumb.



The black areas have dried and are now an off white papery color much like in Slade's tutorial. This is definitely the stuff!

Only one problem: this was done with the prints that were scaled down by Office Depot!

Still, I want to keep testing and refining the process and hopefully get this to work with my HP toner.

I think the trick - more important than the paper or toner - was this tip I found:

.......and remember to think about Slade as you transfer

After that worked like a charm   Let's see if I can replicate it

[Beo]

Nah, it was the toner. Glad your making progress!

[frequencycentral]

I recently bought a laser printer (instead of getting my GF to do my printiing at her work). The paper I've been using is 190gsm High Gloss, worked like a charm with the printer at my GF's work. However, with my new printer it kinda jams at the start then pulls through ok. Worked ok if I made sure the graphic was in the middle of the page.

So, I ran out of 190gsm High Gloss, and decided to try a lower weight paper to stop the jamming. Got some 150gsm Glossy - not as thick, not as glossy. Pulls through the printer perfectly. Last week I did my first transfer with it, good transfer. But, as I peeled away the paper (after allowing the box to completely cool), a LOT of paper was stuck to the toner. I mean a LOT. The paper was obscuring the exposed areas as well as the transferred areas. I had to rub it under water to get all the paper off. After that I got a good etch.

So, last night I was doing another transfer and thinking about this problem - it would be nice not to have to rub the whole thing under water to remove the excess paper. So, on a whim, I decided to peel off the paper before the box had completely cooled. Great! It worked perfectly - I must have peeled it off at just the right time. Not too hot, not too cold. Goldilocks. Maybe I left it to cool for 5 minutes or so. Next time I'll be more scientific and time it to nail the process.

Interestingly, my 150gsm Glossy works perfectly for PCB transfer - less heat making the paper bond to the toner I suppose. It could be that in the enclosure toner transfer process I'm using too much heat, but rather that than risk a poor transfer.

Finally, yes I totally agree that there are a lot of variables to toner transfer. Getting your process perfect is down to trial and error of the particular material you personally have to hand - YOUR printer, YOUR paper, YOUR iron. Just because blah blah works for such and such, it doesn't mean it'll work for you. Make notes of what works and what doesn't. Don't be afraid to experiment and break some rules. And, always always always think about Slade when you're doing a transfer. I know I do.

[frequencycentral]

And, always always always think about Slade when you're doing a transfer. I know I do.

For anyone wondering who Slade thinks about when he's doing a transfer, I know for a fact that that it's markm.  

I don't have words..
Your tutorial was an inspiration to start with etching, there's where I started and many others around the world too. I'm so glad to read some words from you! I just tried to make it even easier to do etchings by making a detailed step by step tutorial (because some members asked me to do it), never meant to de-throne you but thanks again for your kind words... oh, happy day

Edit: That's a beautiful piece of work!!!!!

[frequencycentral]

And another thing.....!

Don't let the toner know that you're scared. Peel off the paper as if it's no big thing and it doesn't matter if it hasn't worked. The toner can smell your fear, and will result in a fail if it senses  anyhing other than nonchalance on your part. One time, when the enclosure was cooling in another room and the door was closed, I happened to mention this to my GF - the toner could sense my fear even through a closed door, which resulted in a poor transfer. This knowledge brought to you by Fernando Ruz.

[markeebee]

I only got into etching boxes a couple of weeks ago, I've done four so far and I've been happier with each one as I've got the hang of it.  I've got the bug now.....while we've got some decent weather, sanding boxes in the garden with a beer and headphones is my new favourite thing.

Definitely it's a case of finding the right mix of materials, heat, time etc by trial and error.  It means you leave a trail of bodged boxes while you're learning, but they're like old girlfriends - good for practice, and I'm strangely fond of their imperfection, but I've moved on now.  And they smell funny.  And they stole my CD's.  And bagged off with my brother.

[Kearns892]

So, on a whim, I decided to peel off the paper before the box had completely cooled. Great! It worked perfectly - I must have peeled it off at just the right time. Not too hot, not too cold. Goldilocks. Maybe I left it to cool for 5 minutes or so. Next time I'll be more scientific and time it to nail the process.

Please post how this goes! Figuring out the transfer process is definitely  an individual journey, but having old threads to pour over and pick up tips from helps tremendously. You're describing exactly what I encountered. I had to spend a lot of time soaking and rubbing gently (even scratched a bit of toner up with my nail on accident). If you do find a way to avoid it let me know, even if I have to do some experimenting form there to get it to work with my set up.

[deadastronaut]

@rick....ahhhhh 150gsm eh?... yeah my glossy is way too thick for the samsung... cheers i'll try that too...

what brand did you get?...


and yes its true it can smell your fear....

[frequencycentral]

@ Kearns: I gotta get it down to a science first. The enclosure was 1590JJ, 145mm x 120mm - pretty big. Probably dissipates more heat than a 1590BB, so that may be another variable. But yes - something to consider.

@rick....ahhhhh 150gsm eh?... yeah my glossy is way too thick for the samsung... cheers i'll try that too...

what brand did you get?...

Tesco of course - where else? 100 sheets for £9.95

[deadastronaut]

^ cheers... every little helps!..

i'll check it out next time i'm in there!..

[Kearns892]

Alright, I've been doing more testing and the cool down period definitely matters! I always get impatient and never let it cool when doing PCBs and for whatever reason that has been fine, but with enclosures letting it cool makes the difference between the paper adhering or lifting straight off and taking toner with it.

Side note:

What methods do you all use to remove paper that sticks over the areas you want to etch? Rubbing with my thumb after soaking works pretty well, but occasionally takes tiny flakes of toner off around the edges.

[deadastronaut]

old toothbrush, under running tap works for me...gets in the tiniest of corners etc...

[Pigyboy]

I mentioned it above that a good way to do it is with the blue making tape. It is a bit less tacky. Take a piece and stick it on the residual paper and it lifts right off leaving a clean edge.  Works for me....

[Kearns892]

Just used the masking tape suggestion and it worked surprisingly well (I personally didn't think it would be strong enough to take up the paper). It does a great job cleaning up finer areas, though I did get a bit aggressive with the tape at one point and took up a bit of toner, but I think I should be able to mask it off with nail polish and tape.

[Pigyboy]

Just used the masking tape suggestion and it worked surprisingly well (I personally didn't think it would be strong enough to take up the paper). It does a great job cleaning up finer areas, though I did get a bit aggressive with the tape at one point and took up a bit of toner, but I think I should be able to mask it off with nail polish and tape.

The blue masking tape is best as it is less tacky and does not pull at the toner as much. I just keep popping it up and down on a clean place and it will pull up the paper in bits without tearing it all up. Take your time....
What I have been doing lately too is using the nail polish around the edges and about a 1/4" down the side of the box then I use the blue tape again to tape off the box sticking the tape right on the wet polish and if I am careful it all seems to seal up very well. I find the normal white masking tape is too sticky and does not fold and seat down as well as the blue...just my opinion.
Cheers,
Chris

[lmorse]

I am having issues with getting a good toner transfer on an enclosure.

I have created 2 boxes previously with great results. However I am having little success with the current enclosure...

• I spent a long time sanding the box down with 220 grit
• I cleaned the enclosure with acetone and water and soap
• I have tried 5 different types of paper, including paper which has worked for me before, as well as the backing off sticky labels
• I have tried ironing for between 14-30 minutes
• I have tried various combinations of the above, sanding down after each unsuccessful attempt, sometime wiping with acetone, sometimes only soap and water, sometimes just a clean rag
• I am using the same batch of toner as the last enclosures

Results have been patchy. What toner does transfer can easily be scratched off with a fingernail. The last one I did for 30 minutes and the transfer was worse than one, using the same paper, for 22 minutes.

I was wondering has anyone had issues with too much preparation of the box, or keeping it under the iron for too long? Or maybe this box has something in the aluminium that is preventing good transfer?

Does anyone have any other suggestions? I have been at this one enclosure for 2 days now trying to get a good transfer.  Huh

[deadastronaut]

''What toner does transfer can easily be scratched off with a fingernail''

dead cartridge?...

the only box i ever had problems getting an image on was an old ''hammond'' 1590b base plate that a mate had in his bits n pieces shed drawer for years,

before i sanded it i noticed it was way shinier than the boxes we have now...it was a soab to initially key into..

no matter how much i sanded/cleaned, that bugger just would not take an image... shame as it was for a plaque for a friends dead dog.

i ended up using a spare 'eddystone' base, worked perfectly..