Food for thought: overdrives

[rockhorst]

Now, this probably dawned on some of you decades back, but it just wanted to share my afternoon epiphany.

Most ODs available are modded tubescreamer designs. I built a few of them myself (without the darn mid hump), no surprise there. Over the last week I went into a pedal building craze, after months of stocking up PCBs and components (will be in the pictures thread as soon as I get hold of a camera).

I just finished extensively A/B-ing a Zendrive clone versus the Rock side of a Dirty Little Secret. With a little knob tweaking required here and there, they just sound stunningly the same (the Rawk side of a DLS is a different story, but I wouldn't call that overdrive). Sometimes the Zen seems a bit gritty, sometimes the DLS is a bit more 'open', but basically...they sound the same. Put it this way: in a youtube vid you wouldn't be able to discern the difference (unles of course I use wildly different settings).

Now if both were TS like designs, I wouldn't be surprised at all...but the insides of both boxes are so dramatically different (Zen uses an IC chip and a handful of components, DLS uses 6x 2N5457 JFETs and is a bit more involved)...I was really quite surprised. I'd say either of them is more different from a MXR Distortion + than from each other...Anyway, full volume live test next week to confirm. Be interested if anybody shares the experience.

NB: there is of course another possibility...maybe my personal tastes just like to home in on a certain sound, regardless of the pedal...Pretty reassuring that it doesn't matter that much which OD is in front of me, I can sound like 'me'.

[CynicalMan]

The problem is that they're very much tied in to an archetype or two. They need a bass cut, a treble cut, and some basic clipping. They often acheive the same generic tone with some bells and whistles. People expect a certain overdrive sound, and just about every pedal on the market achieves it with a few tweaks. I'm not one to unconditionally harp on about how musically toneful tubes are, but they do have certain characteristics that I want that no solid state overdrive I've found can offer:

• High harmonic distortion before clipping
• Lots of compression before clipping
• A fairly flat frequency response
• Clipping that doesn't need treble and bass cuts to sound good

Even FET emulations don't have these characteristics. I think I've come fairly close with my designs, but if anyone knows any ODs like them, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

One depressing way to spend a rainy afternoon is to go through the demos of all of the $200+ overdrives at proguitarshop.com and marvel at how similar they are.

[stringsthings]

... I just finished extensively A/B-ing a Zendrive clone versus the Rock side of a Dirty Little Secret. With a little knob tweaking required here and there, they just sound stunningly the same ...

...maybe my personal tastes just like to home in on a certain sound, regardless of the pedal...

interesting observation ... and an appropriate title ... just like food, people have different tastes when it comes to overdrive/distortion/fuzz sounds ... and there's no right or wrong ... just whatever does the trick for you ...

[rockhorst]

I have to add that I tested the pedals on two fairly low wattage tube amps on a clean setting (or just a little beyond). Both single stage 6V6 amps (on a side note, I love 6V6es). The live test next week is gonna be essential: it's a blues/rock jamsession and the place has H&K solid state amps. Fine for clean, meh for anything else. That's where the pedals come in real handy.

My 120W amp head sadly needs some repairs, and I'd love to drive it into real (output tube) distortion some day...But I'd better find a bomb shelter first. Preamp tube distortion can be very nice, but in the wrong hands just as horrid as a pedal.

[liquids]

Even FET emulations don't have these characteristics. I think I've come fairly close with my designs, but if anyone knows any ODs like them, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

One depressing way to spend a rainy afternoon is to go through the demos of all of the $200+ overdrives at proguitarshop.com and marvel at how similar they are.

Have you tried FETs at higher than 9v?

[liquids]

The live test next week is gonna be essential: it's a blues/rock jamsession and the place has H&K solid state amps. Fine for clean, meh for anything else. That's where the pedals come in real handy.

A simple 9v+ active EQ can go a long way, if you know how to control frequency, etc.

Preamp tube distortion can be very nice, but in the wrong hands just as horrid as a pedal.

Not all pedals are horrid.  Many aren't, IMO.

'Preamp' tube distortion can be equally horrid in the 'right' hands too, if not well 'sculpted' for said sound.  Warren Haynes and Clapton both have great 'hands,' but I think their current gear (SLO and strat into whatever, respectively) as distracting, bordering on annoying.  And Derek Trucks is by far my favorite player, but his tone is kinda sad to me...

[rockhorst]

Oh I wasn't saying pedals are horrid (in general). Quite the opposite. Using them a lot these days and really enjoy them. I was just a bit confused that two very different designs turn out to sound so similar. Of course, the opposite can be achieved as well.

Running them at 18V did make some differences more pronounced by the way. Like I said: can't wait for the live test.