Alpha pots too easy to turn?! Weird question.

[jimosity]

So, I built a pedal for someone - they say the knobs are "too easy to turn" and want to feel more 'resistance' when turning them.
I use standard 16mm Alpha solder tab pots.  Is there something I can do to make them    harder to turn or a different kind of pot that doesn't move as freely?

[nexekho]

All of the Alpha pots I've bought have felt just right, unlike the ones in my US600 which are very variable in stiffness.

I found this.  Don't know how true/verifiable it is, but the only conclusive post I could find about stiffening a pot:
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-245521.html

[darron]

that must be frustrating to hear back....

alpha pots are very standard. they even use them in amps!

i suppose the 24mm ones are a little firmer to turn, if you could fit them in.


why the hell does it matter? are they knobs getting knocked out of position or something?

besides, you wouldn't want to get RSI turning your pedal knobs... it's a matter of OH&S!

[davent]

See if he wants to spring for PEC pots, i've found they have much stiffer feel then those silky smooth Alphas. (After he sees the cost of the PECS he should feel better about spinning the Alphas.)

dave

[Scruffie]

How the knob is pushed on can effect the turning circle, tell him to push it on more.

Some Alphas are different to others though, I find futurlecs ones have more resistance than the alphas I got from a company here, but the futurlec ones also have a slightly shorter shaft.

[vendettav]

how bout using this trick? i did it a few times and i like it often if you dont have space issues then get dual ganged alpha pots: turning them is like going by digits/steps. I dont really know how to explain it but it's kinda cool

[rockhorst]

I gave someone a booster a while back to check it out in his setup. When I get it back, there's duct tape all around the knob to keep it in place because the guitarists truly STOMPS on his pedals. And since it was my first pedal ever, with a linear volume pot, moving it a fraction could cause a HUGE sound explosion.
Taking the duct tape off also ripped off the graphics.

[Joe Hart]

A blindfold and salad tongs would make them harder to turn!

But seriously, a larger diameter knob makes them easier to turn and a smaller diameter knob makes them harder to turn (you get more torque or some physics thing). Maybe smaller knobs?
-Joe Hart

[petemoore]

  The felt washer-ring, installed before the knob well adjusted [for pressure to clamp the felt pad between the knob and the enclosure surface, works well.
   I was turning my Strat off every third windshield wiper picking stroke until the felt washer-pad idea got found/installed under the volume knob.

[jimosity]

Not sure if I want to mess with the grease idea...the felt idea sounded the most promising.
Smaller knobs aren't really something I want to do, I'm using Davies 1510's - those aren't huge.
I think it's just a matter of running across one of those guys that just can't be made happy no matter what.
Sometimes, I swear it's easier to just give somebody their money back and tell them you would rather just not deal with them.

[Pigyboy]

Right here is what you want. Made exactly to create  'feel' to pots. Interesting stuff. We used it before at a defense contractor I worked at for this exact problem.
http://www.nyelubricants.com/products/damping.shtml
Check it out.

The felt idea sounds good but it sounds like it might not make the guy happy. The grease mentioned above will work but I am not sure where to source it quickly. RG told me when I was having a problem with a guy who didn't believe that the pedal I had sold him was really true bypass, Welcome to the world of customer service......

Good luck, don't argue over it and it is usually pointless to make a point. Give the money back with a smile and move on. 

[jimosity]

Wow, that stuff looks like it might be good.
What kind of place can I buy this stuff locally?  Do hardware stores have something like this?
I assume not radio shack.  :\

[Pigyboy]

Hey Jimosity,
Check it out...go to this link
http://www.nyelubricants.com/products/damping.shtml
and in the contact pull down box there is a link for small volumme orders world wide and it all looks affordable.


Right here is what you need - 15 euro. I am buying some right now!
http://www.newgateonline.com/product/Fluorocarbon_Gel_868H%2C_10gram_tube_NL1013

[jimosity]

Hmm.
Which grease do you recommend?

Fluorocarbon Gel 868VL   Ultra Light (Smooth, Off White)   -45°C to 125°C   289   <0.17%   0.3%
Fluorocarbon Gel 868L   Very Light (Smooth, Off White)   -40°C to 125°C   295   <1.03%   0.2%
Fluorocarbon Gel 868   Light (Smooth, Off White)   -40°C to 125°C   277   <0.0%   0.2%
Fluorocarbon Gel 868H   Medium (Smooth, Off White)   -30°C to 125°C   265   <0.0%   0.2%
Fluorocarbon Gel 868VH   Heavy (Smooth, Off White)   -20°C to 125°C   242 (unworked)   <0.0%   0.2%

[Pigyboy]

They recommend this for volume pots
Fluorocarbon Gel 868H
But wait for a little as I just wrote them to ask  if it is actually applicable by putting it in the wiper area of a normal carbon pot and it does not have to be in the shaft. I just wanted to be sure before I spend the cash.
I am eager to try it after reading the info about the damping effect. I bought some 12mm alpha pots from smallbear and they turn way easier than the sealed green 9mm ones. I have a box here with one of each and you can really tell the difference. Where did you get the alphas you used in the build? I bought some from ebay and they sucked but they are always good from Smallbear and mouser.
I will let you know what Nye says about the grease

[jimosity]

I always buy my pots from either 4Site or Mammoth Electronics.
They are the same that I've gotten from Smallbear/PPP/EffectsConnection/Jameco.
Thanks man

[joegagan]

interesting thread.

for what it is worth, omegs are quite hard to turn,, i always suspected it was the heavy bodied grease inside them.

[gmoon]

Weber has information on their pot ordering page about turning friction (for some of the pots).

I've ordered speakers and such from them, but not pots...

[Pigyboy]

A blindfold and salad tongs would make them harder to turn!
-Joe Hart

"Id missed that one. That is funny as @#$%.

Ok, so I have been emailing back and forth with the tech guy at Nye so I will just post them and we can from there. Here is his first reply:

'The description of your application states "problem of pots that turn too easily" so it seems like the issue is a lack of resistance or free motion. If that is correct then applying the damping grease to the shaft would be the best option. A grease applied to the wiper area is normally used to prevent contact wear and help with electrical 'noise'....also helps fine tune the feel of the potentiometer by damping the wiper movement. I would sick with using the 868 grease on the shaft if you can; depending on the contact forces you have between the two contact surfaces (wiper and track) you may need a specialist potentiometer lubricant.

Hope that helps, please let me know if I can help further.'

I wrote :

'Is it difficult to get the grease into the shaft without dis-assembling the pot? Will the 868 work properly in the wiper area as electrical noise prevention and creating a 'feel' to the pot are desirable. Basically all of us in the guitar effects DIY community use mostly Alpha carbon composite pots and finding a grease that is applied easily into the wiper area to improve the workings of the units regardless if is really 'stiffens' the rotation would be interesting.

Suggestions?'

And he said:



The 868 should work ok, my only worry is the forces involved. If the contact forces are low then there is always the risk of the wiper 'aquaplaning' on the grease. If his was to happen you would just have to wipe the grease off the contact surface. Should be ok for you but obviously I cannot guarantee. Maybe buy a 10gram tube and have a trial?



If worried about the contact forces or you really want to extend the life of the pot then a grease that is specifically designed for potentiometers would be a better choice? It may not have the same level of damping as the 868 but if you don't mind forking out the cash then the Fluorocarbon Gel 813-1 is superb. Bit pricey but 10grams would last you for years. The 813-1 is bought/used by a number of high profile electronics components manufacturers, superb performance and contact protection. You could also consider the Rheolube 716A.....take a look at the following page (scroll down to see the products):

http://www.newgateonline.com/category/Potentiometer___Sensor_Lubrication_Protection,l.html?sortBy=FeaturedDesc



I maybe over thinking the matter. Either way you will have to have a trial. Probably best to start with 10grams of one of the 868 range.

Regards

Pete"

So there it is.

I want to try the 50 GBP  - 816 stuff but too spendy today. Maybe I'll get a tube of the 868 to check it out at less than half the cost.  The guy has been really cool. Hope this helps...

[Ice-9]

One thing to watch out for is when soldering the wires to the pots, give them to much heat for too long and the grease in the pots melt and that can make the pots to easy to turn.