How can companies get away with this?

[Seven64]

So I have been on a quest for the ultimate death metal sound, as I cannot afford a 5150\6505/Krank Rev head.  I stumbled across the Griffin Death Metal Mod for the Boss Metal Zone and really liked the way it sounded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBoGnWanqUs

I ended up buying the kit, modding the pedal, selling it to get my money back, and picking up another cheap metal zone off of CL and doing the mod to it again, but with my parts instead of buying the kit.  I saved over $25 this way, and have started tweaking the kit.  I have been swapping the distoriton chip, as well as upgrading internal components.

Anywhoo, on "the other fourm" i read that a company called Johnson makes a pedal called the Distortion EQ that was supposedly a direct copy of the metal zone.  I snagged one for $20, and just got it today.  i opened it up, and sure enough its a direct copy.



same pcb image, just moved the 9v source



identical layouts



the johnson uses cheap components



and the not stock metal zone



$$$

[george]

From the lengthy discussions on this forum that I have read, I believe you can copyright the PCB layout "artwork" but not the circuit (which would probably not be unique/original enough to qualify for a patent).

The Johnson PCB IS different (as you yourself pointed out), and probably different enough to not breach the boss copyright.

Conclusion: companies get away with this - because they can!

Nice photos BTW

[fuzzy645]

That's why some pedal makers conceal their components in epoxy or goop. I opened up  my Hermedia Zen Drive and found the goop.  Good for them.

[goulashnakov]

how can they get away with this?  the same way behringer got away with the ultra metal.   

Alternate [generic/rhetorical/cynical] answer:  How can [entity] get away with [action]?  Because society lets them.  Because WE let them.  Blame ourselves.   

[Seven64]

how can they get away with this?  the same way behringer got away with the ultra metal.   

Alternate [generic/rhetorical/cynical] answer:  How can [entity] get away with [action]?  Because society lets them.  Because WE let them.  Blame ourselves.   

but the ultra metal only has a 2 band eq

[DavenPaget]

how can they get away with this?  the same way behringer got away with the ultra metal.   

Alternate [generic/rhetorical/cynical] answer:  How can [entity] get away with [action]?  Because society lets them.  Because WE let them.  Blame ourselves.   

but the ultra metal only has a 2 band eq

It is still a metal zone inside . That's how beta aivin got away with their OD , it's more of a metal zone .
Not sure about beta aivin's HM-100 . ( i have the HM-200 , the one in a steel case and more knobz )

[DougH]

Welcome to the electronics industry. Keep your arms and legs away from the mouth and enjoy yourself.

[Seven64]

im sad the pic of the opa2134 didn't come out better tho

[nexekho]

The Boss is using brown resistors while the Johnson is using blue - aren't the blue ones 1%?  Also, note that while one uses LEDs in the middle of the board the other has standard diodes.  Is that the result of a mod?

[Barcode80]

From the lengthy discussions on this forum that I have read, I believe you can copyright the PCB layout "artwork" but not the circuit (which would probably not be unique/original enough to qualify for a patent).

The Johnson PCB IS different (as you yourself pointed out), and probably different enough to not breach the boss copyright.

Conclusion: companies get away with this - because they can!

Nice photos BTW

That's actually not enough to clear them in a court, as "derivative works" are also subject to copyright. BUT... what many don't know is that companies like Johnson, Washburn, and other producers of the cheap pedals you see in Target, Wal-mart, etc. often license the circuit board artwork from the original producer. Boss has nothing to lose by doing this, as only people like us would bother look inside, so Boss's sales do not suffer because no one puts it together that it's the same circuit. And, of course, as you mention the assembly at the Johnson usually uses cheaper parts, etc (although in this case, the parts Johnson used are actually quite a bit better than the Boss ones!).

This is similar to food companies who manufacture the same product in two different packaging types: 1 branded and one store-branded. The store branded one usually uses cast-off ingredients from the processing of the branded product, and has plain packaging (and store-brands need no advertising or marketing), so the price of the store brand can be significantly less than the major brand but retain the same margin because of the lower overhead.

In fact, they most likely wouldn't have changed the PCB at all, except that Johnson already bought their enclosures in bulk, so the adjustment is merely to make it fit their stock enclosure.

[Paul Marossy]

Johnson pedals are made in China, right? Boss pedals are made in Japan. The Chinese don't seem to have second thoughts about copying things and putting them out into the market.

[G. Hoffman]

Johnson pedals are made in China, right? Boss pedals are made in Japan. The Chinese don't seem to have second thoughts about copying things and putting them out into the market.

More to the point, the Chinese has no respect for international copyright or patent law. 


Gabriel

[Paul Marossy]

Johnson pedals are made in China, right? Boss pedals are made in Japan. The Chinese don't seem to have second thoughts about copying things and putting them out into the market.

More to the point, the Chinese has no respect for international copyright or patent law. 


Gabriel

Yes, exactly!

[tiges_ tendres]

Johnson pedals are made in China, right? Boss pedals are made in Japan. The Chinese don't seem to have second thoughts about copying things and putting them out into the market.

Boss pedals are made in Taiwan.  The old ones were made in Japan.

[DavenPaget]

Johnson pedals are made in China, right? Boss pedals are made in Japan. The Chinese don't seem to have second thoughts about copying things and putting them out into the market.

More to the point, the Chinese has no respect for international copyright or patent law.  


Gabriel

Yes, exactly!

Absolutely no respect . Countless times i've seen boss pedals being ripped .
And yeah , the old Japan models bought used can cost you even more then a new taiwan pedal ... talk about boss having huge profit margins .
Indeed ,
BOSS :

[DougH]

I'm with Barcode. I'm guessing it's a licensing deal like Silvertone/Dano, Montgomery Ward & whoever built their guitars/amps (Airline maybe?), etc. Not necessarily the insidious boogeyman people think.

[Electron Tornado]

I'm with Barcode. I'm guessing it's a licensing deal like Silvertone/Dano, Montgomery Ward & whoever built their guitars/amps (Airline maybe?), etc. Not necessarily the insidious boogeyman people think.

Agree. This happens in other industries as well. In the big picture, the closest thing to any boogeyman might be the likes of Boss, or anyone else doing something similar. It's also an interesting look at the business and economics of effects pedals.

[Seven64]

Johnson pedals are made in China, right? Boss pedals are made in Japan. The Chinese don't seem to have second thoughts about copying things and putting them out into the market.

More to the point, the Chinese has no respect for international copyright or patent law. 


Gabriel

or respect for the Olympic rules