Press n Peel ironing delay?

[JRay]

Hi All

I am planning on using PnP blue to print up a small board. However I only have a laser printer at work. Is it OK to say print and then iron several hours later i.e. when I get home, or do you recommend I iron right away?

Cheers
Ray

[deadastronaut]

if you have a laser printer id save your pnp, and just print onto magazine paper, photo paper.....if its a small board.

rip out a magazine page with just text on it and print on that....and use it any time....laser toner is like plastic, it'll be ok.......

if you do you use pnp..that'll be ok anytime too......

[Mark Hammer]

PnP will last as long as any laser-printed document, under the same circumstances.  Just don't crinkle it so the toner flakes off.

When I prepare layouts for printing, I always provide myself with a few spares, just in case I mess up the first one through impatience.  I have a sizeable stash of duplicate/triplicate patterns I've accumulated over the years sitting in an envelope, awaiting a purpose.  I'll give 'em to friends who express interest in certain boards or effects.  They hold up quite well over the space of years.

[JRay]

Thanks for the replies Deadastro and Mark!!

Just the reassurance I need! Astro, the board I am printing is quite fine traced and so I thought I would blow some PnP on it to hopefully get a high enough resolution.

Cheers
Ray

[Barcode80]

Thanks for the replies Deadastro and Mark!!

Just the reassurance I need! Astro, the board I am printing is quite fine traced and so I thought I would blow some PnP on it to hopefully get a high enough resolution.

Cheers
Ray

You'll get the same resolution out of magazine paper, it's the printer resolution that controls that...

[Mark Hammer]

Thanks for the replies Deadastro and Mark!!

Just the reassurance I need! Astro, the board I am printing is quite fine traced and so I thought I would blow some PnP on it to hopefully get a high enough resolution.

Cheers
Ray

You'll get the same resolution out of magazine paper, it's the printer resolution that controls that...

Yes and no.  The true resolution is really defined by the particle size of the toner+emulsion.  Since PnP is a smooth plastic sheet, the toner+blue particles that break away from the backing sheet when you peel it off are quite small, hence finer resolution.  If you opt for photo paper that is large fibre coarse paper, the shiny emulsion that the toner is printed onto detaches in larger particles, simply because the adhesion of the white emulsion to the paper is defined by the the size of the paper/wood fibres.  Naturally, both shinier emeulsion (smaller emulsion particle size) and smoother paper (smaller paper fibre size) will allow the toner pattern to more truly reflect th precision of the printer.  Obviously if the printer was 120dpi x 120dpi, the printer itself would be the limiting factor, moreso than the paper.  But once you're up ib the 600dpi zone, it's really the paper fibre coarseness that sets the limits of how crisply the toner+emulsion pulls away from the backing.

This is why I have certain ground rules for what needs PnP and what is just fine with photo paper.  If the traces are fine and closely spaced, you need the precision that PnP and the smaller particle size provides.

[Barcode80]

Hmm, I've never noticed any visible difference in my transfers on pnp and my transfers using Kodak photo paper. Odd.

I definitely do have things that I designate each for, but that's less about the transfer and more about being able to see the transfer as I'm ironing (PnP) or not (paper)

[Mark Hammer]

Either you do a crappy job transfering both to copper board, or you buy much better photo paper than I do! 

I think there is also something to be said for thinner vs thicker backings.  Glossy magazine paper is probably much better than heavy stock budget photo paper, in terms of both heat transfer and the extent to which paper fibre size dictates how the emulsion peels off.

[Barcode80]

Either you do a crappy job transfering both to copper board, or you buy much better photo paper than I do! 

I think there is also something to be said for thinner vs thicker backings.  Glossy magazine paper is probably much better than heavy stock budget photo paper, in terms of both heat transfer and the extent to which paper fibre size dictates how the emulsion peels off.

Yeah, it was pretty lucky that i stumbled onto a great photo paper product on the first try. Now, I DO get better adhesion some spots with PnP than photo paper, so there may be some degradation to some degree. I just always assumed it was because you aren't heating as directly when using photo paper and thus are unable to always melt the toner properly. But it could be a density thing I suppose as well.

[Mark Hammer]

Oh I think there is definitely a heat-distribution aspect to it, most definitely.  But ultimately, the entire process depends fundamentally on how the surface emulsion, whatever it may be, breaks away from the backing medium.  The adhesion of the blue layer to the acetate sheet with PnP is highly consistent, not only because heat is transfered well through it, but because it is for all intents and purposes a non-porous surface, when compared to paper.  That makes it easier for the blue emulsion to be pulled away from the acetate by the toner's adhesion to the copper, yielding greater precision.

[Barcode80]

Oh I think there is definitely a heat-distribution aspect to it, most definitely.  But ultimately, the entire process depends fundamentally on how the surface emulsion, whatever it may be, breaks away from the backing medium.  The adhesion of the blue layer to the acetate sheet with PnP is highly consistent, not only because heat is transfered well through it, but because it is for all intents and purposes a non-porous surface, when compared to paper.  That makes it easier for the blue emulsion to be pulled away from the acetate by the toner's adhesion to the copper, yielding greater precision.

We are such nerds.

[robmdall]

Yes, nerds we are. But in a good way!  Reading through this I wondered if anyone has tried this method using transparncys?

[Barcode80]

Yes, nerds we are. But in a good way!  Reading through this I wondered if anyone has tried this method using transparncys?

It's been tried. I actually think you can find some stuff on here via search about it. IIRC the results were like photo paper: good for some, lousy for others.

[Mark Hammer]

Overhead transparencies ought to work...in theory.  My sense is that the emulsion over top of the acetate is not thick enough to do the job we want it to, though.

[chi_boy]

This may be common knowledge, but I tried something I learned playing with the DecalProFx products and it worked great. (for me)

I cleaned the board as usual, but when I was done, I cleaned with a little Tarn-ex also.  Then just before putting the PNP on the copper, I cleaned the copper and the transfer with a tac cloth.  I know this is nothing earth shattering, but it worked for me and the boards were my best yet.  Of course I'm still a rookie, but it is positive progress.

[boogietone]

A recurring topic here. I use the shiny side of the backing of a sheet of a Avery labels. Don't forget to remove the labels first.