Orange Squeezer only works when a buffered pedal is placed before it

[mandarin9]

I've assembled a GGG Orange Squeezer with no modifications and the pedal only works when a buffered pedal runs before it. If I go straight into the pedal it does produce sounds but it's very quiet even at full volume and adds low frequencies on neck pickups (using two guitars, one a single coil, other a humbucker).

Finding out a buffered pedal fixes the problem happened by purposeful accident.   

I was debugging the problem and feed a loop into my Line 6 DL4 for signal while using that awesome probe thingy with the capacitor attached to a cable, you know the one,  so I start to probe and the first spot I went to (at the output jack) produced what I would expect from the pedal -- a very subtle compression with a ton of boost on hand. I tried running two non buffered pedals before it and that didn't work, even a booster cranked made no difference. I then tried another buffered pedal and boom, it worked.

Full disclosure, I am a total newb. First post and all that.

My thumbs are killing me from all the searching and reading and debugging I've done the last two nights. If I need to be sent to the woodshed, I get it.

But this seems like such a weird problem (couldn't find anything like it in my searches) I thought I'd hit up you folks for some advice on how to proceed. Any ideas? Anyone ever experience this with other pedals? My newb mind thinks it has something to do with impedance but seriously, what do I know?

[misterg]

Double check wiring & component placement - in particular R1 - should be 1M5: brown green black yellow. May be confused with R11: 1k5 - brown green black brown. Would give the symptoms you have.

(Just a hunch).

Have you read the sticky at the top of this forum ?? (This one)

Andy

[therecordingart]

Double check wiring & component placement - in particular R1 - should be 1M5: brown green black yellow. May be confused with R11: 1k5 - brown green black brown. Would give the symptoms you have.

(Just a hunch).

Have you read the sticky at the top of this forum ?? (This one)

Andy

My first thought reading the title was "it's gotta be a really low input impedance issue".  Check out this load loss calculator just for fun:

http://shure.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/224/kw/load%20loss/session/L3RpbWUvMTMyMDk3MDcyMy9zaWQvSzNUVkdPSWs%3D

[mandarin9]

Andy, you nailed it. I'm not qualified to call you a genius or a wizard, or I don't know, the reincarnation of Einstein... One thing is for sure, I never would have figured that one out on my own.

I never would have figured it out because I made the mistake of feeling 100% sure that I populated the pcb without error, there was no way I was going to make that mistake, nuh-uh. Other people make that mistake, not me. Hah! Talk about hubris.

Here's what I did: Instead of reading the color codes I figured using my DMM to check resistor values and then triple checking them would be safer than the possibility of misreading the color codes. I misread 1k5 as 1m5.

I'm going to read the color codes from now on and double check the values with my DMM, and I will never assume I made no mistakes with resistor values the next time I have to debug.

I am extremely humbled. Not in a bad way or anything, I feel great! I've learned a valuable lesson. I am also very very grateful for your insight Andy.  Thanks a million. Now I'm off to swap some resistors.  :-)

Jim

[misterg]

It's happened to us all......

Glad you nailed it. I think I should go and buy a lottery ticket while I'm on a roll  

Andy

Edit to add - if you look at the schematic, you can see that the first thing the input signal hits is R1 to ground (which is a major part of the input impedance of the circuit). With a 1k5 there, it needed a buffered pedal to stop R1 shunting most of your signal to ground. If you also ended up with a 1M5 in R11, your compression would be very subtle indeed (almost non-existent!).

HTH

[mandarin9]

Absolutely, the 1M5 in R11 had that effect, that is, barely any... :-)

That was confusing too -- engaging the effect and getting a huge drop in volume with no discernible compression, even buffered there may have been zero compression. I'd heard that Orange Squeezer style compressors were subtle and that some may not notice the effect. Heh...

After putting the resistors where they belong I have to say the effect is more pronounced than what I'm used to which is a more "transparent" compression like from the Maxon CP101, and three I'm auditioning, Tone Press, Diamond, and Empress. (all so good I wish I could keep all three)  The effect to me is as dramatic as a tame version of a Ross/Dyna style compressor.

I am sure I don't have it biased just right, I'm going to get a multi-turn pot to help out there, but despite that, and it not being "transparent", I think I'm in love.

I've been having a blast with this thing. The attack is a bit pronounced but once I stopped fighting that the fun started. Last night I found that the combination of maxing the pedal, setting my Princeton (no reverb) volume at 2.5, and turning the volume down on my guitars produced the sweetest sound I've heard from my gear, like, ever. I've never tried pushing the input of an amp and have stayed away from the volume and tone controls on guitars since I started playing, we're talking 25 years now. It sounded so good it hurt. (...or was it was my playing that hurt? hmm... gotta A/B that.)

From here I'm going to geek out some more on this Orange Squeezer circuit, I think I'll make another with lots of sockets so I can experiment with swapping components (I wish there were more GE diodes out there to mess around with, ah well). After that I think I'm going to shake things up in the fuzz world.  :-)

Jim

[petey twofinger]

nice one mistereq , thats so excellent you did that !

+25 "karma points" or whatever 

compresser guy , welcome to diy , i have found "mental blind spots" exist at times , time outs and fresh starts with a different approach can really help .  sometimes a trip to the restroom (where i do my best thinking) a drive , or that time right before you sleep can be very productive .  i have been on the fence about building a comp sometime , now i REALLY want one , thanks for the detailed info . i finally started using those knobs as well after 25 years , my new fav setting is the neck pu , with the tone rolled back , and a volume cut .

[mandarin9]

I encourage you to build an Orange Squeezer Mr. Twofinger, if you don't like it one of your buddies will.

I still need to get a muti-turn trim resistor for bais adjustments, that's the only thing I'd change out with the kit I got. I may not really need it, I'm loving the thing as is, just want to see if there really is a super sweet spot. If the opportunity presents itself, always look for the sweet spot... 

I find the two guitars I have with treble bleed wiring work best for what I described earlier. The one without treble bleed gets way too dark, I'm rolling off the volume a ton at times. I guess what I'm liking about lowering the guitar's volume is that it changes how squishy the pedal sounds. The effect is lessened, and combining that with hitting that input hard on my amp. Mmm Hmm... Love it.

Jim, compressorholic

[misterg]

I built a 'love squeeze' type compressor, and really like it for its transparency and lack of noise. Needs to be scratch-built though (or bought!).

(@ Petey - thanks very much  )

Andy